Emotive subject

[Newton]

Snadger....even you aspire to a better life whilst bleating on about how the management are taking advantage. You won't let them. You will strike. An it will make headlines for a day or two. Then you can reiterate your point time and again......just like this thread. It will make no difference in the long run.

If you work hard in this life you will be rewarded. Full stop. If you work hard as a union worker you will become a more powerful boss type union person.

Ditto. In the church, council, macdonalds or anything else. Even on the Allotment!

And here's the point. The best companies and organisations recognise that their staff (workers) are their number one asset. They look after them. They let them climb the ladder and do well for themselves.

And they like and appreciate it.

We must make a society that serves everyone and embraces the differences in aspiration and ambition that exist amongst us. Snadger, you are a clever articulate bloke but slightly blinkered for some reason.

Striking is a thing of the past! Go to work on the 30th November and see how you feel. It might make more of a difference than striking.........

And let's shut down this thread. It's political and unnecessary.

Cant wait to get to the lottie tomorrow and Grow some veg...my own ....to share out......

[Alison]

If you work hard in this life you will be rewarded. Full stop.

That should be the case but it really isn't true. Have lost count of the amount of people I know who have been taken advantage of

[zazen999]

It's political and unnecessary.

Everything is political. Discuss.

I agree with Alison though - your description is a very idealised vision of employers; they are there to make money. End of.

Unless it's a not for profit organisation and even then, they tend to look after themselves. It's human nature.

[Newton]

Best companies survive. Worst fail...

[SarzWix]

If everybody who worked hard ended up at the top, there would be only top. That is obviously not possible. My nana and grandad had a strong work ethic, my grandad never really retired, but they were never 'rewarded'. My FiL worked hard, for very long hours, and never made it past area-sales rep. for Routledge. He lives on a pathetic pension now, and worries about paying the heating bills!

It isn't hard work which gets rewarded, it's ruthlessness, and connections, and the luck of having a talent which is recognized as valuable (like 'making' money), rather than one which isn't (like being a carer).

[Fruit&2veg]

"And let's shut down this thread. It's political and unnecessary."

Why?

Like any topic, this is subject needs to be open to debate- Use your democratic right-If you dont like it dont read it

[Thelma Sanders]

well, I think everyone is being very well behaved and discussing it nicely (for a change) so why should it be shut down?

I thought that's what this bit of the site was for anyway.......General Chitchat

[veggiechicken]

Everyone is entitled to have an opinion. Whether they choose to express it publicly on a Forum such as this is also their choice. They also have a choice as to whether or not they read the views expressed.
For once, I have decided to keep my opinions to myself. That doesn't stop me reading these posts however, and enjoying some of the debate. To each their own - and long may it remain so.

[susieq100]

I am going to strike even though I voted against it ... I think that we need parents on our side (I'm a teacher) but as Snadge said, a union is a democracy. Our pension terms were changed in 2007 after negotiation with the (then) government to make it sustainable and self financing. We are being asked to pay 50% extra in pension contributions. This will not go into the pension fund but to pay off government debt caused by the banking crisis. We are also on a pay freeze for 2 years. Please don't think that the public sector are 'feather bedded' - the media does not always tell you the whole story.

[zazen999]

Best companies survive. Worst fail...

Define survive and fail? If they were only in it to make a quick buck, and then 'fail' fast then is that in itself a success? I've unfortunately seen the worse side of the way plc companies work and I'd never work for one again. All skirt no knickers; as they say. And they disappear with the top brass and their personal fortunes leaving the hardworking staff standing open mouthed and signing on.

[SlugLobber]

I am seriously considering working from home on the 30th. The University I'm doing my PhD at is striking. Regardless of which side of the argument I'm on, I just don't do inflammatory crowds and I take great offence at bullying emails telling us to join in and that there will be a picket line outside every building entrance.

What were you saying about democracy?

[Potstubsdustbins]

Utopia has been the dream is the word was invented in 1516 but I am afraid it will never happen there will always be 'the have's' and 'the have not's' and this strike or any other will not make a shred of difference.

Instead of strking I have always used the 'tools in bag' principle i.e. if I don't like the job, way I am treated etc I move on.

Colin

[Alison]

Utopia has been the dream is the word was invented in 1516 but I am afraid it will never happen there will always be 'the have's' and 'the have not's' and this strike or any other will not make a shred of difference.

It will be if nobody challenges it, can't remember the proper words but it reminds me of that poem about doing nothing when they came for the first people, the second people etc and then there was nobody left when the speaker needed them for support

Instead of strking I have always used the 'tools in bag' principle i.e. if I don't like the job, way I am treated etc I move on.

Sadly not everybody can, skills may not be transferrable, there aren't many jobs about at the moment and anyway this isn't just about how workers are being treated today, if it were simply a case of not being paid enough today it would be much simpler but it's far more complicated than that.

[Hilary B]

I have admiration for the ORIGINS of the Unions (and they do still have their place, and tackle things that need tackling), but there is nothing in the world that is black-and-white, and I do get a bit tired of an all-too-common attitude that there is something fundamentally wrong with being in business to make a profit!
Small businesses often make just enough profit to pay some sort of wage to the owner (often a lot less than minimum wage), but even the big ones may well only be making a little more than enough to pay all the loans needed to keep going.
The thing about the current pension dspute is that the 'business owner' who will have to foot the bill is each and every taxpayer. I have a lot of sympathy in principle for those who are being told their pension is not going to be as good as they were led to expect, but ALL of us have that problem, and some (in particular the self-employed) will be lucky to be able to retire at all.

[SlugLobber]

The poem Sarz is 'When they came for the Jews'.

Hilary, you're right about the self-employed. My OH works 7 days a week and has been paying into a private pension. It will pay him peanuts if he retires before 70.