Continuing a theme....

[di]

Hope this won't be seen as yet more equality or unequality of the sexes but just saw this on a friends FB and thought of you lot. I, personally don't agree with what they've done, but it does open up the question of how much we stereo type children according to their gender.

(sorry lovely mods if it's another headache thread )


Couple Finally Reveals Child's Gender, Five Years After Birth | Parenting - Yahoo! Shine

[Thelma Sanders]

They say it's the childs choice, but it's been theirs, and I'm not sure it's a good one.
Yes people decide for themselves if they feel happier as male/female or a mixture of the 2 as they get older, but that's the point..when they are older and know what's right for them. He was born a boy, why not just accept that fact, he can still play with whatever toys, and dress up if he wants to. My son played with dolls no problem! But he'll just get bullied if she insists in sending him to school in a blouse, it's asking for trouble by making him different, time enough face up to it, if he wants to be 'different' later.
It seems to me that they have almost kept part of his identity from him.

[di]

Thelma, I think what they've done is awful and have my doubts as to whether they did it for him or to feed their own egos. It worries me that, by concealing his gender, he'll somehow think it's something to be ashamed of.

The interesting thing it made me think though, is how we bring up our children. Do we unintentionally make them fit into the stereo typical male or female. I'm fairly pleased to say Ash is a fairly rounded little chap, he used to love dressing in Daisy's fairy costumes, he's chosen to have long hair and he's the one that helps me out the most with chores. Daisy on the other hand, I do sometimes worry that she is very much a girlie girl and I don't do enough to encourage her out of her little shell...or maybe that's the shell she's comfortable in?

[di]

The other thing that struck me, btw, was how they wouldn't let him wear 'macho' skull tops, but a sparkling pink swimsuit was OK?

[veggiechicken]

I don't have children so can't speak from experience, but I've never understood why its pink for a girl and blue for a boy. Aren't babies being cast into a predetermined mould from the moment of birth?

[di]

Daisy was almost always in stripes as a babe...almost the whole of the general public thought she was a boy.

Ash was almost always in stripes as a babe...almost the whole of the general public thought he was a girl

[BarleySugar]

I had two sons, and then a daughter. Despite being resolved to treat them no differently, they were different, all three had definite ideas of what they liked to wear, and what they liked to play with. It so happened that all of my friends had sons, so all the boys did play with 'boys toys' although being as we were all being told not to 'condition' our sons, none of us prevented them playing with dolls or other 'girly' toys at the toddler and playgroups they all attended. Guns etc were definitely off the agenda, but it didn't take them long to work out how to make them from lego!
My daughter was the first girl born into the group. Her brother's toys were there to be played with, but she used them in different ways to the boys. She loved frilly dresses, even though she did wear hand me down trousers and many other boys clothes as well (economics as much as practical considerations). Barbie was just as likely to feature in adventure games as Action Man was to be found in family scenarios.

I have read that so-called experts are now agreed that boys and girls are different in more ways than the obvious, rather than it just being conditioning from parents and society. I have one daughter who is definitely very female, (but still wears combats and T-shirts with skulls on), one son who is definitely very male, (but who wore black nail varnish to his all boys school, has hair in a pony tail down to his waist, and wears a black leather trench coat) and one who is lovely and I wouldn't like to hazard a guess as to where he lies on the spectrum, he doesn't give out many clues.
Whatever and whoever they are is fine by me, and I think giving a child the freedom and confidence to choose their own path at whatever age (and chances are that path may well vary as they mature and become more self-aware) is what is most important.

[veggiechicken]

At least they weren't mistaken for zebra!

[SarzWix]

Gender is constructed by society. If you refuse to allow society to do that, by concealing gender from it, then the child's gender is constructed by itself with no interference. Instead of having gender/identity forced upon it, it determines its own. I think it's really brave of them to try. And if skull tops are banned for every child in the house, then that's fair enough IMHO. As is the banning of Barbie!

Gender Trouble by Judith Butler is well worth reading if you're interested in this stuff.

[di]

But they didn't ban the sparkly pink swimsuit? Reading between the lines, just a little, I get the impression they were trying to put girlie stereo types at the fore and hide or ban any macho ones.
I don't think you can do that with just one child. Maybe, if a whole neighbourhood tried it, it could work, but I'm afraid I still think they did it for them and not their child and I'm afraid I think hiding ones gender/identity could have long term effects on their acceptance of what and who they are.

[taff]

I wouldnt have thought it would make much difference at that age. He's not old enough to be completely aware of adults wanting him to be one thing or the other, and I doubt old enough to remember much either.

[di]

Oh, I don't know. I can vividly remember some of my nursery days. Also, it's not just about the remembering but also where you're at when you start school. I do think he's been done an injusticeand will start school at a disadvantage. I really hope I'm wrng and if he grows up to be the most emotionally balanced human, then I'll gladly eat my words, but I stand by my first feelings that this was all about an ego trip for the parents as opposed to what was best for their child.

[Potstubsdustbins]

Now remember I was born in 1946. At the age of about 12 I was a real scallywag and pretty much your average late 50s lad. One day I found a picture of a really pretty little baby girl just old enough to sit up for a photograph, beautiful curly hair down to the nape of her neck etc, I thought it was probably my cousin. Was I surprised when Mum told me it was me, still have the pic somewhere but it only comes out when I feel like giving friend a laugh.

Colin

[binley100]

Look at very old photos .......babies were put in dresses whether they were male or female

[veggiechicken]

Nah na na nah na!! You're older than I am!!! Oops sorry, lost control there - no, its OK, seat's still dry...
So you're now "an average late 60s lad"? Sorry, I digress,as usual. What was the question?

Bins, you squeezed in the middle when I was composing - I'm sure you're not older than I am..