Continuing a theme....

[binley100]

oops sorry VC ........I'm definately not as old as Potty ........

[BarleySugar]

I was interested to see if any research has been done as to how gender stereotyping at a young age can affect later opinions.
Readng this
http://www2.uni-wuppertal.de/fb3/psy...%20%282%29.pdf
through quickly, it seems to say that children can hold quite rigid views up to the age of 5ish as to what constitutes male and female behaviour etc, but they then become more flexible as their ability to reason becomes more developed. The research only seems to cover up to age 10, and I'm sure there is probably other contradictory research too, but it seems to me that influences later in life might have more effect than those encountered early on.

In times gone by all children used to wear dresses in the belief that this would confuse the devil because he would think they were all worthless girls, and so protect the boys from early death (boys being more delicate were more likely to die in childhood). I can't be sure, but it doesn't appear this caused those little boys too much confusion as to which gender they were later in life when the boundaries between male and female were more sharply defined than now.

As far as colours, it is only relatively recently that pink has been for girls and blue for boys, but it depended on country as well. Apparently pink was seen as a more masculine colour related to red, whereas blue was daintier, and was related to the Virgin Mary.

[lizzylemon]

I found that (apparently) in her blog, she refers to the boy as 'The Infant"' very disturbing. That particular label smacks of an experiment to me, and no one has the right to experiment with the welfare of another, especially children. I haven't read her blog but I sincerely hope she refers to her son more loving and indearing nick-name other than 'The Infant. I can't imagine what damage that sort of label would to a child. Far more than boy/girl I should imagine. I can't help but think this is very selfish 'social experiment' within their own family and I hope they haven't set their child up for years of self doubt or even more emotional hang ups than we pick up through life in general.

This leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. What happens in the future if this turns out to be a hideous mistake? They won't be able to go back in time. And what does the last 5 years prove to anyone anyway?

[veggiechicken]

oops sorry VC ........I'm definately not as old as Potty ........

Nor me!!......

[Potstubsdustbins]

Oi Binners & VC you be careful or I'll rev up me zimmer and come and get you so there.

Potty

[veggiechicken]

You won't catch us, I have a scooter and Binners has legs.

[binley100]

Careful now Potty .........got yourself in trouble once before for following me as I recall

[Hilary B]

Having been acquainted (online only) with someone who was 'intersex', and had to decide (when about 13) on which gender was preferred, and going by that person's feelings as expressed in numerous posts on the forum where we met, I agree with the comments that it was an unjustified experiment for the egos of the parents. On the whole, the people most likely to influence a child by treating differently because of its gender are parents and other close family members, and these are the ones who knew!
The person referred to above went to Primary school under the name of Rose, but when I knew him, he had a wife and children, after assorted surgery and medication to sort out the nasty trick Nature had played on him.
I also think that if people want to form a commune where ALL children are brought up with gender left out of the equation for as long as possible, that would be fine (if people can really do it, not all can), but while there is a fair bit of 'socially-related stereotyping', gender differences are a bit more than that. More to the point, there is a stage in a child's life when the differences DO start to matter, we usually call it puberty, and a bit of advance preparation for THAT isn't going to come amiss either. It just needs keeping to maneagable proportions.

When all young children wore 'dresses' and were referred to as 'girls' regardless of actual gender, the actual differences were not kept secret from friends, family, and the child, and there WERE difference in how they were treated, pretty much from as soon as they could walk and talk.

[Glutton4...]

Daft C*w just wants the publicity!

[veggiechicken]

Will probably write a book about it, rights already sold to a publisher, film to follow when the child is 10. Then he'll write a book when he's 20.

[salome2001]

I started out with all good Guardian- reading, cardigan-wearing intentions of eliminating gender stereotyping in bring up my son. Our best friends have three girls and they are, simply, a different gender. They will all play together with trucks, Bob the Builder play tools and on the trampoline, but the older he gets, and they get, the more girly they become and the more of a boy DS becomes. They like to sit and colour in, DS is lucky to scratch a couple of lines and then get bored. They like to dress up, he makes helicopters with construction toys.
In the end, I think more harm is done by trying to restrict what your child explores by confining them, whether that is banning pink from your boy- or by making him wear it.

[VirginVegGrower]

Do you know what, just let a child be! My son loved diggies and trains. Now it's fighting and war games. Still have a pic of him aged 2 in my high heels, which I had taken off after work. Did he or I give a damn? No!
My daughter likes boy stuff but everything in her world is pink, purple or black. Let them be what they want.
I think the woman's a crank and her husband must be nuts for condoning it.

[snohare]

I assumed that the child was intergender, and they were making a public story to give the child time to decide for his/herself which gender s/he wanted to be, while limiting the social fallout for their child, and taking any flak on themselves.
Transgender children of all types are more common now than they used to be, and having read some of the harrowing tales of psychological damage from yesteryear when the parents would tell their child which sex they were - but get it wrong - I can see why many parents would choose to defer the decision.
When it comes to gender, it seems to me that every individual is somewhere on a sliding scale for a whole range of tendencies that are maybe more likely for one sex than the other, but each person can be anywhere on the scale for any behaviour. Tomboys can enjoy dressing up in ball gowns, rugby players can paint watercolours. Endless variability in individuals is practically the hallmark of the human race.

[RedThorn]

What ever happened to just plain loving your child unconditionally? I wanted a girly girl before DD was born, guess what? She loves(and done very well at Karate, her choice over modern dance) and has a very mechanically gifted mind and her spatial awareness is way beyond her age but she's happy and has free reign on deciding what she wants(obviously curtailed if it is destructive) but on the whole if a toy or activity is something she enjoys, why stop her? DS on other hand is very much a boy's boy even though there's dolls etc around. Even though DD loves the more tomboy type activities, the way they play with toys is so vastly different. (as I'm typing this DS is sliding cars down the slide, slides down after them collects them into a tub and repeats)

If later in life they decide that traditional roles are not for them, will I love them any less? Of course not and I'll support them through what ever they decide then.

Guess what I'm trying to say is allow a kid to be a kid and have fun and explore their world and to develop their own ideas and personality in a rounded loved way, so they can make their own decisions later in life knowing full well that they are loved first and foremost and how ever they choose to take their place in society later on, they'll still have that love and support. Rather than having parents forcing them to decide far sooner that they are emotionally or developmentally ready for. I do think that something like this experiment will force the decision for the child to occur sooner than they are truly ready for and even though it takes a lot of courage from the parents to attempt what this couple did(stepping back from the emotion I can see what they are trying to do) I do think it is wrong and as you can see from above, why.

You lot know my responses do not tend to be verbose, so based on the length it says something sorry all (*packs soapbox away*)

[petal]

This 'experiment' is not unique. I have actually taught a boy, who is now grown up- who had fruitcakes for parents too.
He had a horrible time as a teenager, friendless and 'gender confused'. not a happy lad at all. He is now a cross dresser. (is that the correct term?) sorry to have to say this - he is really wierd to talk to, actually quite unpleasant now he is an adult. He is particularly mean to women. ( hatred of his mother???)
I don't know, just let kids be kids. I always refused to buy toy guns for my son- then I realised I was wasting my time as he made a really elaborate one out of lego when he was 3.