Employment And Support Allowance (ESA)

[Two_Sheds]

now chasing the BH's medical records

Good luck with that. When I wanted mine (to see what actually they did to paralyse my shoulder) they "couldn't be found", "were missing".

[julesapple]

We've just been told, this afternoon, that they'll cost us £50...that's a huge hole out of our straightened budget, but we have no choice. When we get then, we will be photocopying every page several times. Just in case the copies we submit **become lost**

[mrmagoo]

sorry.. please ignore my rant

Mr Magoo, I don't know what benefit system your neighbour is on, but it isn't this one. There is an assessment every two years or so, always has been, independent of sick notes. If he gets them that easily, he has a personality disorder or something equally severe, you see him treading a thin tightrope.. But of course, you wouldn't see him when he is ill. That's why few of my neighbours know I am ill; they may assume I am out elsewhere "as usual", but I'm ill at home.
The one thing that will give a DWP DM (Decision Maker) serious pause, is the idea that you may be an insurance hazard at work. The powers that be hate the idea that you may somehow get a job, then (for example) go postal due to a previously known psychotic illness - and the DWP may be sued by victims or next of kin. They know they have not a leg to stand on legally, particularly as their pet researcher Mansell Aylward's claim is that mental health sufferers who feel unfit to work do so because they have "a deviant attitude." "Mental health sufferers" now include CFS and ME sufferers in the UK, as the health insurance industry has successfully changed the official definitions from neurological to psychiatric. The current death toll of ESA claimants waiting for appeal tribunals to admit they are ill is I believe 31, many psychiatric.
Of course, with the complete cycnicism which has been the system's hallmark for several years now, Atos know that they can put epileptics onto JSA, because they will never get a job, and any injuries done will be to themselves. I understand that of the 70% + of Incapacity Benefit claimants put onto the Work Related Activities Group, 39% are assessed long term ill by the Jobcentre Plus staff (who are worried about their premises insurance) and something like 22% are signed off short term ill.
I may well PM you, Jules. I have loads of info, on all the intricacies of the tricks they pull. (Many illegal, of course.) Make sure you document all changes to your health as the process proceeds, and give this info to your doctor; and get an advocate to help you.
When I first made the mistake of doing research on this of course I could see immediately what was in store for me - so my ulcers kicked off big time, and my health (previously improving, albeit sporadically) has deteriorated. I am fine as long as my ageing parents can afford to support me, but God, I pity people who are totally on their own.

[snohare]

Aye, I see where your concerns come from Mr Magoo. Although, I was on Sickness Benefit, and still had the whole hoop-la to jump through - twice I have won on appeal at tribunal, each time by only one point, despite presenting numerous affadavits that I am a keen voluntary worker, with many instances seen of the health problems I claim. This time round they have sacked the head of the tribunals that criticised their original decision process (70% of decisions were overturned when advocates were involved) and the grounds for successful appeal have been changed. If the "reforms" of legal aid benefit rules happen as proposed, there would no longer be legal help with this part. As far as I am concerned, I doubt if any is available.
Ironically enough, the one thing that everyone is in agreement about is that the system needs reform - but the current reforms are more about corruption and lobbying at the highest levels. About a month ago I noticed that Mind and SAMH, two mental health charities, were now actively lobbbying against the Welfare Reform Bill. Guess what...SAMH no longer exists, it just had its funding pulled. Mind will be next - it's too big to kill off immediately, but you will find them suddenly falling silent as they "re-organise".
Jules, you need to send everything Recorded Delivery, or get a written receipt. (Which they may refuse to give, but you have a legal right to it.) But the good news is, at a Tribunal, you have only to prove there is reasonable doubt that they took something pertinent into account, and you will win; if they ignore medical data provided, or did not have time to read it (eg the decision is dated and time stamped an hour after delivery of medical records) then that is worth 6 points, and you win.

[Seahorse]

I'm sure some people play the benefits system but far less than the amount of folk who need help but struggle to get it The bottom line for me is that we're ALL the 99% here - if we want to moan about freeloaders and corruption, we need to stand together and look 'up' not 'down'.

[julesapple]

Sno,

We know of a chap who is now on his fourth appeal with these beggars. Seems every time you get through the hoops, win your tribunal/appeal, you get another letter through the post within about four weeks starting the whole process off again from scratch. I just wonder how long we're going to be dealing with this. The stress is destroying me and we've only scratched the surface.

[snohare]

Yes, they are specifically targeting some groups. You win once, they will come back again. That is part of the reason for the death toll (finally uncovered by a Freedom of Information Act request) - depressives don't cope well in those circumstances.
But the day will come, when a prosecution is on the cards for disability hate crime - persecution of a disabled person - and Government officials will be in the dock. There is no two ways about it - they are extremely vulnerable to a legal challenge, the only thing is that they know there are not the legal or financial resources to go up against them, in their target group. And of course the likes of IDS cannot conceive that they are wrong.
Of course, sometime before then, somebody might have taken a dislike to an Atos assessor or a Government Minister or the head of the DWP, and decided to throw them out a window. At which point...well, things would change.
What we really need is that hacker's group Anonymous to release some emails between DWP and Atos, or Unum, laying bare their strategy and tactics. There has already been a leak of memos from Unum saying that they are driving government strategy, what is needed now is evidence of collusion. That would be political dynamite.
Sadly, my hacking skills are non-existent.
But seriously Jules, if even I am getting p*$$ed off at them, there must be other people really loading for bear. Can you imagine how many PTSD ex-squaddies are getting hit by this ? Someone is going to go postal, and that will open the can of worms.

[julesapple]

There was, or might still be a way to get them.

It goes like this; Person goes to ATOS for their interrogation and the interrogators are a bit surly, not very polite. So Person takes a note of their names with a view to finding some body to complain to. At home later, Person is on Facebook chatting to friends and a friend suggests looking up the interrogators on FB. Long story short, Person fund two of them on FB and reported them as they were openly insulting the people they had interrogated that day and saying how much they liked 'destroying cripples' and worse things that cannot be repeated here.

I'm not sure of the legalities, but that is true. The Interrogators lost their jobs. A small victory, but still...

[snohare]

Oh yes, the Atos healthcare assessors have some pretty atrocious form for abusive and downright damaging behaviour, including assault. The best advice I have seen is to demand to know beforehand which medically qualified person is going to be seeing you - they do not give full names on the badges, will not give their name when questioned despite it being a requirement, and complaints will usually lead to "We do not have a record available of who was there" type lies.
Which is pretty sad, some of them are still fine enough folks I daresay - my experiences in the past were of one good (who did me an enormous favour and actually put me onto more benefits that he said I was entitled to) and one arrogant s.o.b. who frankly acted like he was doing me a favour even looking at me. In recent years they have gotten rid of as many well qualified older staff as possible and replaced them with foreign doctors, retired doctors, nurses and the like - they are not regulated by the BMA if they don't hold a medical license, which gives Atos totally free rein. The DWP is supposed to monitor and audit Atos, but refuses point blank to do so, despite the 500 page contract between them being in the public domain.
When you get a letter asking you to attend a medical, you need to be aware that this may be a trick. There are rules about how they must phrase the request - I have Crohn's Disease, that entitles me to a home visit. Many psychiatric illnesses are the same, so they phrase it as, "tentatively invite" you to a medical examination. They also mention that if you do not attend a medical you will lose benefits etc, dire things will happen - but fail to mention the alternative. Were I to attend that medical instead of asking them to come to me - I didn't know this last time - that automatically means I am fit to travel according to their assessment, regardless of any potential problems with incontinence,fatigue etc and thus fail to score the 15 points needed to be unfit for work. There is a list of all the different conditions and which of the three categories of medical they fall into.
My sister who has severe ME with bad arthritis in her hands, walks with two sticks, one of which doubles as a seat when she is tired. At her medical they claimed that she was able to walk 200m on the level, manage stairs, and could open blister packaging without problems. All outright lies; they make assumptions to meet targets and save time - each assessor is supposed to see 10 people a day, at 45 minutes per assessment, so they are between a rock and a hard place even if sympathetic. Particularly with the software, which can say things like, "Customer has a slight amputation which is recovering"...!

[Helgalush]

We've just been told, this afternoon, that they'll cost us £50...that's a huge hole out of our straightened budget, but we have no choice. When we get then, we will be photocopying every page several times. Just in case the copies we submit **become lost**

Definitely take photocopes and send recorded delivery. Part of the hold up with mine (and the repeated phone calls being pushed from pillar to post) was that they said I hadnt sent in a certain document, even though I had packaged the whole lot up together and sent recorded delivery. Just this alone caused me no end of stress for a fortnight until I finally got that (and other matters) resolved. Just one big headache. So definitely keep all your records.

[julesapple]

Sno, the BH has FBS (Failed Back Syndrome) and qualified for his DLA because he is 'barely ble to walk' does that mean we can get a home visit? I know the very first time we applied for the DLA we had a home visit. I'd prefer to meet these people on my own turf.

[Two_Sheds]

he is 'barely ble to walk' does that mean we can get a home visit?

Then he should ONLY have a home visit: if he manages to get to the interview, that means his problem isn't as bad as he 'pretends' it is (seriously.)

[Two_Sheds]

the death toll (finally uncovered by a Freedom of Information Act request) - depressives don't cope well in those circumstances.

There was a little bit in the weekend paper but I didn't save it, it upset me too much. There was mention of a number of people who had killed themselves, leaving either a suicide note pretty much blaming Atos/ESA or leaving their letters in plain view next to the body ... and the Govt (or whoever) laid the blame on the nature of the depression, not the added stress of having to "prove", again and again, that they were really ill.


Caitlin Moran, in The Times last Sat, wrote a good article about her friend Richie and how he's suffering under the new Housing rules (in a nutshell, poor people can't live in rich areas and must move out).
He's schizophrenic, has lived in Brighton all his life (so I gather). Brighton wasn't always so expensive, but as the Londoners moved in, so house prices rocketed. Now the Govt won't pay for Richie modest 1 bed flat and are making him find shared accom out of town. He's a schizophrenic, he can't cope with other people, esp. strangers.
He's also a carer for his mum who still lives in Brighton (care home I think). He's going to be moved far away from her. He doesn't have a car, and no spare money for bus fares, even if he could negotiate his way round the public transport system.

Link here, hopefully

It's all for the good though: his little flat will now be done up and rented out to some more London commuters.

[Two_Sheds]

My link might not work (it's a paid-per-view thingy)

" A man with mental health problems who was worried about benefit cuts killed himself while he was searching for a job on the South Coast, an inquest heard.”
Paul Wilkinson, a man found hanged with a note “in which he expressed concerns about government cuts”.
It’s not difficult to come across stories like that. With a few clicks, you can find dozens of them. The woman who slipped out of her house one night after being told that her fitness to work would be assessed and was found dead months later; the couple who died in a suicide pact having lived on nothing but soup and were unable to get the authorities to help them; a poet who left no suicide note, but who had laid out on the table two letters telling him that his benefits had been stopped."

[di]

That's awful TS.

I wonder, once they've hurried lots of unfit people out to work and start saving pennies from paying their benefits, just how much they'll end up paying out in statutory sick pay, how many businesses will struggle because their new employee is needing so much time off sick, due to not being able to face the world.

Years ago, I worked with a friend. He had serious depression. I loved him dearly, but oh how his illness disrupted all of our work. He couldn't help it, he did his best. He was just told his illness wasn't real, therefore had to work.