the organic brigade

[beefy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/netwo...einvestigation
If you did not hear it the above is a link to a Radio 4 programme on the claims that organic farming makes about its self and how many of these can be backed up. Its half an hour long so make sure you have the time.It raises many different points and is well worth a listen.
For anyone whos intrested here is where I stand on the whole organic debate-
I beleive that in general it is a good idea.To many chemicals and fertilizers are used in modern farming techniques today and if applied at the wrong rates could have the potential to cause harm but banning them all outright is not the answer either.They should be used either as sparingly as possible or if you have the time and the conviction of your beleifs not at all.

As many of you know I am from a farming background and at home we have a farm with milking cows and some beef cattle. If one of these animals gets chased by a dog through a hedge and a cut becomes infected the orgainic option is to do nothing and wait to see if the animal lives or dies.What we do is to give the animal a 20 ml injection of antibiotics (penicillin ) for 3 days .This should kill any infection and 99% of the time the animal will recover.If not the animal will be humanely destroyed and the carcass will be destroyed a- because of the antibiotics in its system ,and b- because of the poisions from the infection .An organic animal will not be allowed into the food chain for the same reason - poisions in its system.So we make the choice to treat the animal and try to ease the symptoms and cure the animal rather than leave it to suffer unnecessarily.

The programme deals with the fruit and veg side of things so I wont make any comment on those until later.

As an idea the organic movement (or whatever you want to call it) has its heart in the right place . Its good as far as it goes but I personally dont think it has all the answers. Its a start but needs a bit of fine tuning before its ready for mass consumption.

I'm out of time and must get back behind my sofa before the nurses realise I'm out and about.

[TonyF]

I'm stuck right in the middle of this discussion. Would I want a chemical plant anywhere near my village, no way I would. I'm anti-nuclear weapons but not anti-nuclear energy because that's the majority of energy production in France.

I'm a leftist green but pragmatic about things. I use home made, bio stuff as far as possible in my garden. I used HSL or other heritage seeds as far as I possibly can.

I take a cocktail of drugs every day which keep me alive, 14 every day in some combination or other - don't take them, I die, easily sorted in my head that one! And I don't agree with testing on animals but don't have a clue whether my drugs were, all I want to do is live my life for as long as I can, was told in 1983 I had 5 years and still stroppy enough to be fighting the medical conditions off.

My view on slugs, snails and other little munchy things is the same as Geoff Hamilton's - some for them but the bigger part for me but if I see them I still get rid of them tho don't kill them, leave them to the birds and frogs etc, use copper tape and copper pipe.

And regardless of my tongue in cheek comments about cats and mice (Sam the Cat now lives here, mices beware) I would rather the cat saw them off than poisoning them.

I'm as organic in my growing and gardening as I possible can be, I have no idea how my plastic or terracotta plant pots are made, I do use some chemicals but from ethical suppliers.

As they used to say in the American soap 'Soap' - confused, you will be!'

[Tigerella]

Hi

[QUOTE][In my book, this counts as preaching /QUOTE]

I started a separate thread, from which I got the title. I did not comment on another thread, to critisize someone else.
Over the past 3 months I have had a allotment, organic. A long way to go yet.
If making people think is preaching then I dont think its a bad thing.

Tigerella

[Paulottie]

Thank you beefy. I found that facinating. I really felt I was on my own in my mistrust of the organic arguement. It raised some thought provoking points.

[nick the grief]

...I'm a leftist green but pragmatic about things. ......'

Does that make you a Cauli or a brussel then Tony, cos you sure ain't no Cabbage

[laura g]

One thing I’ve learned as I’ve got older is to worry more about what I’m doing and less about what others are doing.

Not because my head is in the sand. It’s been years since I’ve been that flexible! Simply because like 99.9 percent of the population, I sit on a very flimsy fence.

I worry about what we are doing to the planet.. What we are doing to each other. I make choices that are probably relatively small but my family and I can understand them and sustain them. If that makes sense.

Most of all, I endeavour to steer clear of large supermarkets. Not just because of quality but because I know they bring independent retailers to their knees.

I know this because I am one of them. A year ago I owned two second hand and antiquarian bookshops. On Wednesday I am signing away the second of the two. Not being able to compete with tescos and the like made up at least 60% of this decision.

Interestingly ‘the like’ includes charity shops. Nothing, I know, to do with the topic in hand – excepting as the example that one mans meat can, indeed, be another mans poison.

The lead post did feel a tad preachy. And a little irrelevant – I cannot imagine that there are many people on this forum who are either (a) rampant nimbys or (b) in favour of excessive and irrelevant chemicals with regards to GYO???

[TonyF]

If it does Nick, it makes me a chou rouge!

[Alison]

I worry about what we are doing to the planet.. What we are doing to each other. I make choices that are probably relatively small but my family and I can understand them and sustain them. If that makes sense.

Makes perfect sense, Laura. The point I've tried to make (badly usually!!!) is that one of the most important thing is that people make informed decisions based on facts rather than blindly wandering through life with no thoughts for any impact of your actions.

[WiZeR]

I can echo some of the comments before me:

I do not have time to be totally organic on my allotment. I do not have enough strength in my back to dig out every weed. I use roundup almost exclusively on unused ground. I use slug pellets because I can't be there every single day picking off each slug one-by-one. I do not use pesticides at all and I try tricks like companion planting.

I believe that simply having an allotment and growing your own is 100 times better than buying the GM, Chemical rubbish you get in supermarkets. Not to mention the saving on 'food miles'. Essentially I do it for taste, that can;t and won't be beaten.

[TonyF]

Interesting that this is also on another, un-named mags Forum also!

[beefy]

I believe that simply having an allotment and growing your own is 100 times better than buying the GM, Chemical rubbish you get in supermarkets. Not to mention the saving on 'food miles'. Essentially I do it for taste, that can;t and won't be beaten.

Good point WiZeR but I think it needs a little explaination.
A farmer growing say (just as an example) carrots for a supermarket has a compleatly different set of criteria than you or I have when growing a drill of carrots in the back garden or on your alltoment.
We grow -
a- what we like taste wise
b- what suits our ground
c- what we know grows well

A Farmer grows -
a - a high yeilding crop because the supermarket sets such a narrow spec on the produce they will pay for. The farmer grows the high yielding crop so that with wastage etc hopefully he will be able to sell enough to cover his costs.
b - what the supermarket tells him. If he dosent they dont buy it.The supermarket will ask for a record of everything that happened in the field that year when the field was ploughed, cultivated, sown,how much chemical was sprayed and when ,when the crop was harvested and how it has been stored since then until it was sorted and delivered to them.If any part of the process is not to their specification or anything is missing- no sale.I've been in a factory with a load of potatoes and because one date was wrong the 25 ton load was rejected and sent for stock feed @ £20/ ton instead of the £200/ton .
Unfortunately taste is way down the farmers list and I've never heard a supermarket buyer ever mention it.

[beefy]

Interesting that this is also on another, un-named mags Forum also!

I know Tony .I lifted the link from the other discussion as I felt that It had something to bring to this one.

[skegblade]

I keep reading how the supermarket chains dictate what and how farmers grow and then pay the lowest price they can get away with. Maybe it's time to return to the old system of the marketing boards; eg, milk marketing board. They may not have been perfect but from what I remember they guaranteed a price for the producer. I know someone with more knowledge of the system will correct me if I'm wrong, but it was just a thought.

[Tigerella]

Hi

[QUOTE][Interesting that this is also on another, un-named mags Forum also!/QUOTE]

Can you give me a clue, I didnt post it!
Do you just mean similar?

Tigerella

[Snadger]

I think it can be summed up as 'Each to there own'!

The very fact that we are contributing to this forum, never mind this thread, means that we have an interest in growing our own!
For whatever reason we relish growing our own for ourselves and our families to enjoy.

We are not farmers, we can grow what we like, when we like and how we like!