the organic brigade

[Two_Sheds]

good thread - I hope we're all still friends ?!
As long as we all do the best we can, that's all we can hope for...it doesn't hurt to think about the consequences of your actions: chemical/overconsumption (or maybe it's a little uncomfortable)

[Paulottie]

Of course we are all still friends, I for one will let anyone know if I disagree but never bear a grudge or take it too personally. I think we are all wanting the same things anyhow it just it is not that simple to achieve and many of us are already doing what we can. Its certainly something I feel strongly about. I'm glad Tigerella started this debate and I enjoy a good debate. I know a confirmed eco-warrior like yourself will understand TS.

Now, I am in danger of going off on one about my pet hate... Supermarkets. I think they suck the life out of our Communities.(anyone see that program on telly about the suppliers? poor fella selling his herd etc.) Should we Start again or continue here?

[beefy]

Of course we are all friends. I think forum is from the latin -to discuss -sure thats what we're doing discussing.As long as we dont make it personal .If we put our own ideas in the mix and someone thinks "I never thought of it like that" well thats a good thing .Isn't it?

[nick the grief]

Of course we are all friends. I think forum is from the latin -to discuss -sure thats what we're doing discussing.As long as we dont make it personal .If we put our own ideas in the mix and someone thinks "I never thought of it like that" well thats a good thing .Isn't it?

I thought Forum was from the top shelf of the Newsagents between Peastick whackers weekly & Big Butts mag

[Egluntine]

I thought Forum was from the top shelf of the Newsagents between Peastick whackers weekly & Big Butts mag

Thank you Nick the grief for injecting a bit of humour into this thread.

[Protea]

Beefy - i just wanted to say thanks for typing all that out - its saved me loads of time!

You said nearly all i would have said about the fruit & veg sector (organic & conventional) with regards to what they have to do (supermarket protocols)and about what REALLY goes on your 'organic' vegetables you buy from the supermarket.

You see, not only do i work for my family veg seed business, i also sell a number of plant protection products to farmers, mostly natural plant extract based/nematodes/natural predators etc etc.... and some of these are indeed organic. However i know of many products that are used on 'organic' crops which i don't sell that the people buying them really wouldn't like to think were used.

And finally - to everyone, i really do get tired of the 'farmer bashing' that goes on on forums like these, i know we're here to grow our own, rather than buy from the supermarkets, but farmers are not 'the devil' as they are often made out to be. A large majority are actually trying to put something back into the countryside (like hedgerows, beetle banks, wild flower areas), and avoid spraying chemicals unless absolutely necessary.

I could go on for ages, but i won't. you can PM me if you want more info.

p.s. the conversion period for Soil Association organic status is 2 years Nick

[beefy]

Ok this is probably off topic but it gives an insight into what you might be buying in a shop as organic.
When I was driving for a creamery one morning I arrived at another creamery with a load of milk.I was asked "Is this the organic milk?" to which I replied "I dont know,I'll ring and find out". When I rang the creamery I was told by one of the managers "If they want organic it's organic".
So how do you know what your eating?

[Snadger]

And finally - to everyone, i really do get tired of the 'farmer bashing' that goes on on forums like these.......D

With reference to my earlier post about us being GYO'rs not farmers I meant it to mean that we hadn't the restrictions that farmers had imposed upon them ie vegetable uniformity, blemish free produce, time crop is ready for shops etc to name but a few!

I say again "We are not farmers, we can grow what we like, how we like, when we like"

I certainly wasn't 'farmer bashing'!

[Paulottie]

Protea,
I just flicked back and i'm not sure i see anybody 'farmer bashing' we certainly discussed the dilema of chemicals and there was an element of supermarket driven production. boo hiss. the real villains of the piece?

I think the whole organic thing has largly been hijacked and is now a marketing fad.... really it has gone from the sublime to the ridiculous.

[Flummery]

Or the sublime to the cor blimey as my old Ma says. And at 85 she's a great advert for eating home grown veg!

[Protea]

With reference to my earlier post about us being GYO'rs not farmers I meant it to mean that we hadn't the restrictions that farmers had imposed upon them ie vegetable uniformity, blemish free produce, time crop is ready for shops etc to name but a few!

I say again "We are not farmers, we can grow what we like, how we like, when we like"

I certainly wasn't 'farmer bashing'!

No, no Snadger - not that comment!

I've just re-read the thread and i think it might have more been this comment by Wizer that got my hackles up:
"I believe that simply having an allotment and growing your own is 100 times better than buying the GM, Chemical rubbish you get in supermarkets."

There 'shouldn't' be any GM fruit/veg in UK supoermarkets as most have pledged not to supply it, and yes while many of the conventionally produced produce sold at supermarkets will have been sprayed, i certainly wouldn't call it 'chemical rubbish'

It is something i've seen on quite a few other threads (there isn't much on this one as rightly pointed out). I guess i'm just a little defensive of my business and the people i work with (colleagues and customers alike).
Apologies

[Alison]

I think most of the threads knocking somebody are actually having a go at supermarkets for bullying farmers into producing uniform crops rather than being willing to go for taste and flavour. Also supermarkets need to go for crops which will travel well where as I don't have a problem with that if I only have to walk down my garden. Nothing against most farmers (there are always exceptions), honest!

[pigletwillie]

A lot of it is also ecomomies of scale.

Most of the pea seeds we buy are dwarf with few leaves that all are ready at the same tiime. Excactly what is required for a pea that can be combined in one swoop and frozen within minutes. Cheap to produce and ideal for home use.

However I like the heritage varieties which have better yields and crop over a few weeks. A farmer could never afford to hand pick peas, imagine the cost to buy them.

You cant really throw all of the blame at the supermarkets either, most people buy what looks good and will turn their nose up at something that tastes wondefull but is less than peerfect in looks. The supermarkets supply what people want to a great extent and the farmers then grow it.

[WiZeR]

Sorry if you where offended Protea, but I stand by my comments. It is my ethos for GYO. If the supermarkets where faultless then i wouldn't be doing this.

[TonyF]

Isn't this all down to personal choice and lifestyle?

Down here you can go to the larger supermarkets and buy the graded veggies and fruit (a la EU) or get the French produced stuff (not always graded) or get the locally produced stuff, usually farm grown and sold direct and that goes for meat, nuts, everything. Part of farmer registration here is that farmers can also (usually) sell their produce direct and don't have to go through a middle person.

I use the bio co-op for some things, the local markets for others and the supermarkets for convenience but usually go for the French produced stuff rather than buying stuff flown here. All it takes is a bit of thought and savvy, like when the embargo was on South African fruit and veg, if we dont buy the airmiles food and tell the supermarkets that we don't want it, then if they truly are listening and really want 'customer choice' perhaps they would listen to that argument.