Moving to France - planning ahead

[Farmer_Gyles]

Me and the missus are planning to move to France in a couple of years time ... we want to plan ahead a bit ... we're thinking of buying a place next year, spend long weekends and holidays there for a year, then move properly the year after ...

We want a "large house" and 2 to 4 acres of land .... some woodland will be good ...
The "house" can be run down .... we can renovate, that's not a problem ....
We want to grow loads of fruit and veg, keep chickens, maybe get pigs eventually ....
We'd like to heat the house from open fires / log burners etc, hence the woodland being useful ....
Extra buildings would be handy ... permanent sheds or holiday homes for friends and family to visit ....

When we find a suitable place, we'll want to start planting .... loads of fruit trees / bushes, rhubarb etc .... things that take time to grow and mature .... we'll want a nice garden .... and we'll want a large area for growing veggies, including a large greenhouse and potting shed etc ....

We'll be happy living in a small village with a 20-30 min drive to town .... if the villagers are a social bunch, that's great with us ....

We've seen loads of "suitable" properties on the Internet .... but vastly different prices etc .... and we've heard about people having all sorts of legal / planning hassles renovating old houses / barns etc ...

Any advice?

[veggiechicken]

Not advice but a question. Will you want to visit the UK frequently or not at all? Do you want to be within easy access to the ferries or airports - not just for you but for any visitors you expect.

[Jeanied]

Hmmm - now I know someone who is just selling up their 'fermette' in France - it has been well maintained and has just about what you have listed!
Never seen the place myself, but they have been splitting their time between England and France for a good few years now, and are only moving back to the UK for health reasons.

[Nicos]

Initial thoughts....

What area are you thinking of?

Might be worth opening a French bank account in that area and transferring some money over whilst the exchange rate is good.

I'd say you'd be looking at up to about €200,000 for something like that if part of it is habitable. MUCH ess if you need to do a lot of renovation work. Land here is pretty cheap and doesn't add much to the value of the property.

Might be worth NOT using an English Estate Agent- they seem to value the properties very high.

How is your French? Listen to French radio as often as possible so as to pick up the music of the language and repeated phrases. French classes too . French language tapes.Both of you- you'll pick up different things.
You'll get MUCH more out of the country if you can make yourself understood.

You're quite young aren't you? ( compared to me at least!!!) How are you going to earn a living. There's no dole here apart from the equivalent time you have been in paid employment in France and paid your taxes.There's massive unemployment over here so competition for jobs is very high.

It's worth considering doing any training whilst you are in the UK. There don't seem to be any short courses over here- most of them seem to be 6 months or more and cost a lot of money.

There are a few 'French Forums' which are worth joining where you can read old posts and ask any questions. We found them to be VERY useful.

Tell us more about your intentions!

[Feral007]

Well let me know when you've got it all organised. I'll pack me chainsaw and come visit

[Patchninja]

France is a big country. The climate varies enormously. That would be the first thing to think about, imho. Then as veggiechicken said, access to England?
Don't rely on Ryanair flight airports as they can come and go as they please.
I live equidistant between Roscoff and St Malo which is handy. Nicos is further east. If you want guaranteed sunshine, you've got to go a long way south. I have a friend who lives in the Creuse where it is the coldest place in the winter in France, and often the hottest in summer. That said, with the weird summer we're having, she tells me she's sleeping in bed socks ;(
But, the Creuse is very cheap.
Do you speak French and will you need to work?
Places that are really cheap are really cheap for a good reason. Either it's industrial and grim or there's no work. Some regions are varied. I really only know Brittany very well. On the coast where I live, it's now rather expensive but if you don't want to be by the sea, it's much cheaper inland and really beautiful. I LOVE this place.
Whatever you choose, I don't think you'll regret it. I've been here for 22 years and don't regret a day.
One last bit of advice, LEARN FRENCH. There are too many people who come here and don't speak french and miss out on an awful lot of fun! Many are very lonely.
If you want heat and to live among loads of Brits then go to the Dordogne but it'll cost you and it's bedlam in the summer. I can't think of anything worse! I must stop rambling. I'll send you a PM.

[Patchninja]

Hahaha Writing as Nicos is posting!

[scarey55]

Hmmm, where to start!

I hope you don't mind me saying this and I don't mean it unkindly, I am just speaking from experience. Do you really need all that land? We have just over an acre and we find it is too much. If you do, then my suggestion would be to get it as flat as possible.

VC has made a very good point. You will need to be somewhere near(ish) to an airport of ferry terminal especially if you plan to go back and forth to start with. You can buy "bulk" tunnel tickets that work out to be quite a bit cheaper if you plan on making more than 5 crossings a year.

The house we have was already renovated so I can't offer much advice on that but the French do like to have everything in triplicate before the work starts - we had to have permission to demolish an old run down building that we pulled down before it fell down!

A good book to have (if you don't already have it) is Living and working in France

I have loads of other things to say but I don't know if I am "trying to teach my Grandma how to suck eggs" so I think it would be better if I answer specific questions so, ask away.

Last, but cartainly not least: I'm sure that your French is better than mine but speaking French as fluently as possible is the first, and most important thing when living in France - I found this out to my cost

[scarey55]

... and I was writing as you and Nicos were posting

[scarey55]

... I have a friend who lives in the Creuse where it is the coldest place in the winter in France, and often the hottest in summer. That said, with the weird summer we're having, she tells me she's sleeping in bed socks ;(
But, the Creuse is very cheap.

We live in the next department (Puy de Dome) It is very cheap but mostly agricultural and very rural. I haven't resorted to sleeping in my bed socks yet but it did get down to -28° and up to 42° last year!

Might be worth opening a French bank account in that area and transferring some money over whilst the exchange rate is good.

Very good point Nicos, If you are getting your money in UK then you will need to be VERY aware of the exchange rate. When we bought our house, the rate was 1.45, last year, we were getting as little as 1.04 effectively giving us a huge pay cut. It can make a real difference.

[Farmer_Gyles]

thanks for all the replies guys ....
i'm 43 .... i have my own internet business so can live anywhere, work anywhere, the money comes in while i sleep ....
the plan is to mostly retire .... we won't need to go out to full time work ....
i did about 18 months of adult education french classes .... never had an opportunity to use it ....
we will need to come back 3 or 4 times a year, but we expect family will visit us out there quite a lot too ....
i expect we'd live somewhere in the north .... the sun down south would be nice, but we will need to get back over here from time to time
we'll be taking a few breaks next year to look around france, see what we like ....
and yes, we would like quite a lot of land .... we want to try and be as self-sufficient as possible .... we're happy to have some land "wild", some as a proper garden, some for fruit and veg .... some for pigs and chickens etc etc etc

we *could* do it in the uk ... but we want the adventure of starting a new life ....

[PyreneesPlot]

Time for my bit...

I'm biaised, but do consider building not renovating. We originally dreamed of renovating something lovely but having spoken to other folks we decided to buy land and build. And its a really easy process. I can give you more details if it something you might want to consider.

The biggest advantage (so far) is insulation and therefore heating bills. Last winter, which although it started late, was very, very cold and snowy. So bad in fact, we were snowed in and couldn't get out to ski!! We have a 7 kwt log burner which was our only source of heating. We burnt one and a half stere of timber, which cost about 80 euros. Friends down the road have a lovely old farmhouse, which munched through 5 stere of timber and 1000 euros of oil.... We have huge south facing windows which catch the winter sun, but are set back and shaded in the summer. Windows on the north wall are small.

We have 3000 square meters of land - dreadful soil, but south facing - and had a shell built (outer walls, roof, sub floor, windows, doors) and did ALL the internals ourselves. But this means we have a super-efficient four bed house for not much more than an old unrenovated building in this area.

Internet isn't everywhere... Sounds obvious but we bought our plot on the understanding that fibre would be down about the time we arrived. In fact, it was several years later.

Healthcare - you are about the same age as us when we came so did not qualify for any healthcare once the recipricol two years were up. For us it kicks in five years after arrival, but we will still have to pay top ups. We have a small business (gardening) which gets us into the system. I may be inaccurate on this so check, check and check again.

Watch French TV. We did this for a few years before we came. The news and weather and at least something else too every night. And we still do. But there is nothing like just talking to people....

We are about as far from the ferry ports as you can get - 1000km - so drive once a year and fly once a year. It is cheaper to go Ryan Air and hire a car then drive from here (fuel, tolls, wear and tear) not to mention being quicker and less stressful! Once we have all our stuff over we'll stop driving.

Do spend lots of time visiting. In retrospect we were too quick to buy, but fell in love with the plot.

We have no regrets and I think are just about getting to the time when expats start thinking about going back. NO WAY!!!!

Do it!

[Jardiniere]

The others have said most everything will just add a few things...
we have found that the people who dont manage to stay and end up going back are those who dont integrate into the local society...so i would try to find somewhere really close or preferably on the edge of a village. Choose the village carefully ...we have found that our french friends are in the main, people who have family connections to the area but have been away, married out or worked elsewhere and then have come back and have a wider perspective than those who have stayed in the same area all the time.A tiny little back water may only have older people in it ...choose somewhere where there will be people of your own age ..there are so many beautiful parts of France and there are thousands of houses for sale and millions of acres of land to be had..so dont fall in love with somewhere...really really find out about an area first. And absolutely check out the internet ..we have great broadband but up on the causse above us we know people who can only get dial up.
We retired here but only after coming on holiday for 16 years..we bought the house in 1991.We didnt decide to move until we got to know people..
You may want to register your business here because then you can join the health service but be aware there are loads of taxes and social security payments.
We live in a tourist area its mayhem in July/August but thats what keep the area going ...otherwise it would be a poverty ridden backwater and no you dont want to live somewhere like that even if the property is cheaper!
Let us know if you intend coming this far south .....best of luck with the search.

[Headfry]

In a 'previous' life - I have done the french farm house renovation thing, fantastic! loved that house, huge, 5 acres,springs and streams, fruit trees that grow mistletoe, fantastic people (farmers) near us, lovely village - just fantastic.
Normandy/ Brittany area good for getting to and from UK (Brittany Ferries - St Malo or Cherbourg)
Think Wales though,
They dont have steeply pitched slate roots for no reason......and it is dairy land, another hint here then .......
Lots of lots of milk = cows = lots of meadows = grass = lots of RAIN!
but it was so beautiful, wild flowers, fungi, glow worms, road sides full of orchids.......sigh!
Funny thing is Oxfordshire is very much similar

Good luck enjoy take your time when looking around, let the heart rule a little - it will help if renovation project is bought. Head will need to rule the pennies (franks) though!!!

[roitelet]

Best of luck with the project. One thing I would add to the advice that the others have given is, 'beware of properties with dependances' you could be looking at a load of tumbledown buildings full, and I do mean FULL of junk. Another thing watch where the commune boundrys are. We have a problem as the chemin which serves us has the boundry running down the middle and it is well nigh impossible to get anything done in the way of repairs. Our neighbour has the boundry running right through her house so she pays one lot of tax to one commune and another lot, for her dining room, to to the other commune. Come out and look, that way you will have a better idea of what is around and prices also you will find out what the journey is like if you are going to visit in the beginning. Prices round here are reasonable.

Internet as someone else said is not always available by land line but there is always the possibility of a satelite connection.

We are in Normandy in Eure on the border with Calavodos and Orne The weather is not that different from that in the UK but it does get hotter in the summer, when we get one, and colder in the winter, so we do get seasons and at the moment we are wet but not as wet as the UK. We make the trip back to the UK (Bognor) fairly often to visit aged parent and find the ferry from Le Harve excellent. We also have the option of using Eurostar as we are an hour and a half from Paris by train.

PM me if there is more you would like to know