Job in France ?

[sir david]

Hi Folks

I wonder if I could pick or even pickle your collective brains .

I am at the moment negotiating with a landlord to rent a property in return for gardening and teaching his children English .

First problem is that the LL's idea of gardening seems to consist of cutting grass ,felling trees and using all the latest chemicals where as I am into growing veg , coppice and being organic . He wants me to mainly cut the grass on his parkland 3ha

Second problem is that we are in France and the bureaucracy here means that it costs more in tax than it does in wages to employ someone . If he employed me in return for being rent free it would cost him double what the rent would be in taxes . His solution is to employ me using using a scheme where by he pays me per job and then offset that against the rent . My response to this is that we need to agree a minimum per month . I await his response to this idea .

Third problem I will have to give up my allotment .............. as its too far away although the LL will give me some land to work plus I can keep chickens and BEES!

Fourth issue Which house

House one Brand new two bed converted Barn in a modern style next to the Chateau where the LL and family live , not yet finished ready June ish .May be too close to LL its in a pretty hamlet next to a river.

House two same size but refurbished in an old style ( heating issues ?)ready now but quite remote next to an empty Chateau My partner in two minds as the cost and time of her getting to work will be greater plus remoteness , its not that near to other houses .



Can you guys see any other issues ?

Any thoughts of the problems outlined above ?



Thanks for your help



David



And no I wont give you the name of the LL ;-)

[wizzbang]

OMgoodness, what a lovely dilemma!!!

Good luck with it.
Lynne x

[zazen999]

I don't know employment or tax law in France but you need to make sure that it is being followed to your benefit.

[Darwin.]

I can solve all your problems. I'll give you a 4 bedroom house in Ireland with a 1 acre garden that includes an orchard, polytunnel, greenhouse and pond. I'll head on over to France and take on the worries you've got.

On a serious note you're right to fix a minimum income per month, don't even consider anything else until that's sorted.

Can you get someone else to take over your allotment for now so you don't lose it completely? As long as you're given at least the same size area for yourself over there you should be happy enough. Keeping bees would be class, chickens a little less so but the eggs would be nice to have.

The choice of house is the tough one. Remoteness vs beside a river . . . . I'd probably go for the remote one personally because love the peace and quiet. Not having any neighbours would be perfect for me. Pay attention to what your partner wants though.

As for the actual work, you could try to convince the LL to go down a more organic route. You're the gardener, you're the expert, teach him the values of home grown food and doing things organically. I don't know what coppice is so you've lost me there.

Best of luck what ever you choose.

[Two_Sheds]

You're not selling it to me, all I can see are problems, tbh

[PyreneesPlot]

Can you do it the other way round - set up as an AE which is a doddle and then invoice him for the work you do and negotiate the rent independently?

New house - if it is correctly insulated, which it should be if not yet completed, your heating costs will be low. We burn about 2 stere a year in a 7kw burner which heats the whole house (100m2). Friends down the road have a nice old house and burn 12 stere and spend about €1000 a year on central heating fuel.

But tbh, it doesn't really sound like the kind of gardening that would keep you happy.

Good luck.

[taff]

Make sure you have a contract of a certain length [howver long you want] otherwise you might find yourself out of a job after a month or two.
If it costs more in rent, why is he not just paying you and then you pay him rent anyway.
I would be living as far as practicable from any employer because unless you are very good friends [and you won't be after working for him for a bit, I've done that before] you'll be glad to get away from him to stop him talking about work and why haven't you dont this etc when you're not suposed to be working.

[Nicos]

Choices eh???

My first thoughts are ...how much is the rent? €400 for a modern house is standard around here.

Unskilled work pays €8-10 an hour....so if you did 10 hrs a week your rent would be payed....then what about paying you for the rest of your work?

What happens in winter? Are you expected to coppice and cut wood to burn? Is he providing the equipment? Insurance????

You are going to have to be very careful to keep all this above board and not 'working on the Black'

As PP says- we too have a 400yr old house and it costs a fortune to heat in the winter. If you are renting it you'll be loathed to pay out much on improving the insulation.
I'd go for the new build given the choice...are there chances of being snowed in in the old one?

[Nicos]

Good point there taff about getting away from the work place!

[BertieFox]

Sounds like a poor deal to me. There are lots of English people making a reasonable living in France just by cutting the grass and doing general maintenance for gites and holiday homes. You need to have the garden machinery first of course, but at least you can charge the going rate for hourly labour. It isn't that difficult to set yourself up as a small business and if you are not employing anybody else, it isn't that costly, though taxes ARE high. Accommodation is no big deal as there are plenty of properties for let in rural areas at reasonable prices or you could get a long let of an ex pat house or gite at a special price. It seems to me your work for this chateau is going to be unfulfilling and forcing you to resort to pesticides and grass cutting instead of doing something more interesting. Perhaps the thing to do is to come to some agreement with this 'employer' (though it sounds he is reluctant to actually 'employ' you and pay all the taxes and contributions you should be getting in law as an employee) and then to branch out into running your own business in garden maintenance and design.

[Nicos]

On reflection- he clearly doesn't want to pay your SS ( €2,000 + per year) nor tax on his income from your rent.

He may be able to afford a fine if this does end up on the black- but can you????

Looks to me as if it's you taking most of the risks here!

I like Bertie's idea of setting up your own business -if you can!

[sir david]

Thanks for all your replies

Darwin - don't tempt me as we both play Irish trad moving to Eire would be nice . We met in Tubbercurry ,Co Sligo at the Summer School

Bertie Fox - I hear what you are saying. What I was thinking was to be self employed using the Chèque emploi Scheme , the LL has already agreed to this and made it clear he does not want to be ivolved in a "black " operation . ( Cheque emploi is a way of starting to be self employed in france that takes care of all the Social costs etc and saved a hundred weight of paperwork .) Would leave me free to take on other work under the same scheme with others in the village and round about .
I dont have the money to buy all the gear nor space to put it where we live near the center of Angers to start up on my own .
The older place seems to have the possibility of being snowed in plus I dont know what the heat/insulation is like .

Taff - thanks for that I was thinking a year

Nicos - Rent is 500€ Its average for a New House rent here abouts
I have told him I charge 25€ per hour for English teaching and 13 € per hour for the gardening as I know others who charge this locally and that I need a minimum 300 € per month to keep us economically in the same situation as we are now .However our drafty one bed damp cold " Victorian" flat in Angers ( 45m2 little insulation ,high ceilings )I suspect will cost us the same to heat as this two bed house ( 100m2)

I await his reply as he is thinking about what I have said .

David

[Jardiniere]

whatever you decide to do ...good luck.
I always advise people not to live too remotely unless you already have friends locally and know the area well. But that probably doesnt apply to you cos you are already established....

[Patchninja]

You're asking a lot for the lessons. I charge 15€ per hour and on top of that, customers have to pay 11€ per hour to the urssaf via the cesu website. That means your lessons come out at about 40€! I get paid 22€ per hour at the CCI.
Have you taught before?

[sir david]

Patchina
I've got a PGCE and my French GF has a masters in teaching French as a foreign Language plus has taught English in French Primary Schools , There are four children to teach aged 8, 9 ,9,10. So I think we can cope and together are experianced enough . As for the price its what we know others who teach children charge in Angers .
I had no idea what to charge I just asked around and found out what others charge . I tend to think teaching 4 pupils for one hour requires 1 hour prep therefore it works out at at less than 22€ for that per hour . I think at 15 euro an hour you are working close to minimum wage if you count prep time .
I will ask around at what other private folks are asking for children .

David