How Green am I? or You

[Tigerella]

Hi

[QUOTE][/Explain why that should be please.QUOTE]


We have global warming, because the population uses too much carbon, meaning too much of the worlds resources. If the population was cut in half, we would use half of the resources we use now.

I family earning £10,000 per year would use half the resources of a family earning £20,000. If they were buying similar things.
I do not claim to know the figure, but I would suggest that a "green" family earning £30,000 per year would have a larger carbon footprint than a family earning £10,000

Tigerella

[TEB]

[QUOTE=Tigerella;97691]Hi

[my cynical self is saying its only a cost cutting exercise anyway.
/QUOTE]

It is because people have this attitude about recycling and global warming that brings many of the problems.
I am poor and I believe in global warming, if I was wealthy, every penny spent would add to my carbon footprint.
So anyone who is wealthy or has more than 2 children cannot be a environmentalist.
Unless of course you have seen the error of your ways and you repent.

Tigerella

Ah but its not an attitude about recycling - its questioning whether the change in refuse collection policy is about recycling. We had the recycle bins for years now and having the refuse collected on a weekly or biweekly basis doesnt change the way I recycle or the amount. Also I believe that despite all the arguments for and against global warming that the human race has an obligation to harbour and conserve irrespective of the global warming issue.

[beefy]

I'm married and have two kids .We earn around £35K (combined )/ year.
My brother as above but three kids.
He has a wind turbine and one side of his roof has solar panels. He also gets most of his heat from a wood burning stove.These all reduce his carbon footprint and make it lower than mine .We've done the calcalation out of intrest about two months ago.Other than the above differences we are pretty much on similar ground so I think your arguement just dosen't stand up. I'd say if you are enviromentally aware and have the money you will fit solar panels wind turbines etc whereas someone on a lower income with the same ideas but less money just cant afford it.

Now to the matter of bi-weekly bin collections. We have had them here for the last two years and we really dont notice any difference.We started with one black bin and one blue bin for recyclables. In the house we have a seperate bin for all the recyclables and really dont notice any difference.We had to ask for another blue bin as we were putting so much into it.Yes the first few weeks it took a bit of disipiline to seperate everything out but once you are used to it you wont think about it.Iv'e never noticed a smell round the bins and vermin still haven't worked out how to get the bungee cord off the lid to get in to it.

[Paulottie]

DO WHAT Tigerella!

China have a one baby law, millions of poor, and look at the tons of sh*t they are pouring into the atmosphere! To create what exactly!? i don't know what the breakdown is per head but as we seem to produce nothing anymore economically I can't see we as a nation will be able to go on buying this plastic rubbish much longer. I suggest that communist nations, for example, have often been filthy polluters whilst their citizens live in poverty. Brazillians or Indonesians are not particularly wealthy on average; but millions of acres of rainforest have been destroyed. As I argued in the other thread this is a global problem.

You theory depends on what we do to earn money; the "if" we spend it on similar things and also our use of fossil fuels. Living off benefits or in poverty just reduces your options- I can't see it as saving the planet just idleness. We as a nation need to create clean ideas and clean technology and clean products and make a difference from a position of strength.... leading from the front.

As for reducing the population by half! Well the last person to propose genocide as a credible political solution was Hitler.

I only have two children, I am not very wealthy. Although, i'm lucky enough to spend some of my time making choices that I hope will make a small difference, this is sometimes a lifestyle choice that requires considerable hardwork and sacrifice.

[yoanbob]

we both work have no kids and are poor, if we could afford green energy we would, we recycle and reuse everything we possibly can, not because we are poor but because we choose to, we could shop at asda and eat packaged ready meals, ingreadients flown in from who knows where all week for a quater of our currant shopping bill, its definatly about attitude not wealth.

[beefy]

How Green am I ?

Good question now that Ive read the question .
We recycle as much as we can.We have the loft and walls insulated and double glazing fitted .We have an open fire with a back boiler to heat the water and radiators (oil for backup only 300 l /year).Energy efficient appliences (fridge ,cooker,washmachine and tumble drier). TD again only in winter and only for school uniforms and work clothes as someone else said if its damp wear something else.We wash and dry our own dishes its one job were the kids wont annoy you .
Outside we dont have sensor lights etc .I am on good terms with enough farmers to get all the fallen timber I want for the fire for free(and its good exercise splitting logs).We grow about 60-70% of our own veg potatoes etc.4 daleks in the garden compost just about everything we throw at them which is then put back into either the veg beds or the rose beds.Collect as much rainwater as possible and use for the veg, greenhouse and roses.
My father has a farm and we rear our own cattle .Each year we select an animal and slaughter it for the family. When we dont have our own potatoes we buy locally from neighbours who grow potatoes commercially but use lower amounts of fertilizers and sprays.
As much as possible we try to source everything else as locally as possible but do end up going to the supermarkets for some things.Its the best I can do with what I have and I'm happy enough doing it. Of course Im open to new ideas and sensible suggestions.

[Tigerella]

Hi

so I think your arguement just dosen't stand up.

Can you tell how you spend money without it having a impact on your carbon footprint?
You buy a "green car", it was made using alot of carbon, a woodburning stove was made by a high carbon using industry.
You buy a flat screen TV, nice hi-fi, computer, books, DVD.
The food you eat could have a almost zero carbon rating, but not much else.
If you can make a list of the everyday things you have bought costing above £50 which you think are made without using carbon.
Even the house you live in would have taken much more carbon to build it than the house I live in.

Tigerella

[TPeers]

Paul, I'm with you! I am lucky enough that not only does TOH earn enough that I don't have to go to work, but we are comfortable as well.

It is only by direct personal choice that we have any impact on the producers in our enviroment - if those who could afford it voted with their feet and refused to buy products that are over-packaged or enviomentally 'unfriendly' the main result would be hardship for those without that choice as it is inevitable that the companies involved would up their prices with the new 'improved' packaging. Which leaves those who are able to choose in a very tough spot - does one demand a change that will bring suffering to the have nots?

There will always be those who are less well off, much as one might like it to be different, in order for them to have a reasonable standard of living they feel they need these less 'enviroment friendly' products and packaging.

An example - recently Safeway/Morrisons (or whatever they call themselves) sold many of its stores around here, most were bought by Sainsbury's but several were bought by Waitrose. In one town there has been an outcry - they want Sainsbury's not Waitrose - their stated reason - the produce might not be as good but it is cheaper.

If you want to change the way people think - good luck to you! I really hope you make a difference but please don't tell me it's my fault that 'everyone' wants the cheap alternative despite the cost to the enviroment and it is my fault because I got an education and use it! - not quite what you were saying I agree, but it is along those lines.

I make what changes I can, I walk if it is feasable and use the car as little as possible, I keep my food miles down in so far as it is possible and produce my own as and when I can. If a product is available in a more enviromentally friendly format then I spend the extra to use it - I have that luxury. I don't fly, I holiday in the UK. I recycle anything that is reasonably recyclable - although Croydon Council is a menace and won't take most recyclables on their doorstep collections, which means taking the car out to take them somewhere to recycle.... I do what I can.

[laura g]

Hi
I am poor and I believe in global warming, if I was wealthy, every penny spent would add to my carbon footprint.
So anyone who is wealthy or has more than 2 children cannot be a environmentalist.
Unless of course you have seen the error of your ways and you repent.

Tigerella

assuming that this was not said in jest, I don't think I can agree in any way, shape or form. 'Believing' in global warming is not directly related to your income and nor should it be! Are you honestly saying that if you had a sudden windfall, you'd leave behind everything you know about environmental issues?

Hi
I family earning £10,000 per year would use half the resources of a family earning £20,000. If they were buying similar things.
I do not claim to know the figure, but I would suggest that a "green" family earning £30,000 per year would have a larger carbon footprint than a family earning £10,000

Tigerella

Again I have to disagree. Lack of income may prevent car owning or holiday travel; obvious CF stuff like that. However it encourages buying third rate food and produce from the high street supermarket giants. Food that could hardly be described as organic or ethical. Food thats probably been air crated for miles. Likewise, lack of income drives consumers to shops such as Primark...actually cheaper than a great deal of charity shops but questions are being asked about exploiting of workers.

We have two children and an income that allows us to be 'greener' than others who bring in less. Our salaries allow us both the time and the cash to support local shops, farmers and farmers markets. I do visit a supermarket regularly - Waitrose. And for clothes, again I have the time and ability to shop at leisure from tons of local dress agencies, vintage stores and charity shops. For holidays: flying is not a problem as we can have just a good time in the UK where family holidays are actually more expensive than clearing off to the Med for a week or two.

Has got me thinking now - need to find a site where you can measure your CF footprint.

As to the bin issue: have got used to bi-monthly pick ups and required recycling and sorting in in Wales so the luxury of once a week in surrey is a bonus! we still do recycle though and have v good local facilities to support it. my only whinge is old fashioned kitchens are just not set up for the job. Have bits and pieces everywhere, although i must say having to wash tin cans has actually made me stop buying them altogether. Apart from the odd baked bean craving!!!!!

[beefy]

http://www.carbonfootprint.com/calculator.html
There you are laura g

[Tigerella]

Hi

[QUOTE][Has got me thinking now - need to find a site where you can measure your CF footprint.
/QUOTE]

Try this site - http://www.carbonfootprint.com/calculator.html

Now my point would be, that web site would measure exactley what details you put in. All the other money that you spend apart from the car the heating fuel etc.
Do you spend it on things which are carbon neutral?

Tigerella

[beefy]

Well using the above calculator (Glad we both agree on it at least Tigerella)my personall footprint comes out at 8581. Its lower than average and Im happy . I can probablly reduce it further and I will try but am i going to go and live in a cave - no .And neither is anyone else.
Just to give an idea on the figs
no gas
noLPG
two cars
no flights
no bus
no train

[Tigerella]

Hi

Ive just done my carbon footprint on the above site and just guessing the figures I got a figure of 8,000, below average.
But if you notice the other things like clothing, recreation and Services, those thing would not be the same for a high earner and low earner. For me the secondary things were greater than all the energy/fuel, which is the point I was making.
Not very well, but thanks for listening. And some of the posters on this thread may be trying harder than me, so I am not against anyone. Just trying to highlight the problem.

Tigerella

[laura g]

well. based on on comings and goings of last year, as a family we racked up 16858. well above the 12034 average.

top Bad Thing was heating. Average is 3876. We managed 9750. That's what you get with a old seaside boarding house. and its why we moved; couldnt afford the gorgeous old dump any more!!! Now we have a 3 bedroom bungalow with the luxury of insulation and double glazing.

i did a calculation on this year coming. as a family we're 12740 against the average of 12034. far more civilised. top bad thing is now OH's company car. on the plus side it's a battery hybrid jobby (awful to drive) but he's still doing 24k a year. If you could take that out of equation the family drops to 8490 and me personally 2122.

cor blimey at this rate I can afford a flight or two!!!!

Joke of course - i'm not complacent or holier than though but I am happy to be moving in the right direction.

[Tigerella]

Hi

I dont think that your business milage should be included, unless it is traveling to work.
I drive a school bus, I didnt put that in.

Tigerella