Pergola (was: need your input please folks!)

[chris]

I'm laying a patio and planning on building a pergola over it. Over said pergola (which will be a lean to one - coming off my house wall) I'm planning on growing some nice climbers and maybe a grape or two.

The patio will be around 9.5m wide, and 4m deep but I'm debating on if I should have the posts for the pergola at around 3.5m from the house, meaning they'll be a couple of flag stones in from the end of the patio, or if I should drop the patio depth to 3.5m or so, and have the posts in the ground, just off the end of the patio - meaning that I can grow straight in the ground, and have the climbers planted at the base of each post.

If i don't do this, and have the posts in a flag stone or two - it means I'm going to have to grow the climbers vertically for a bit, and then lean them towards the posts to train them up it.. My garden isn't large - and we've decided that we'll be making use of the patio more (two young kids, bikes, etc). I'm planning on building a clay oven, and brick bbq - so it'll be more of an outside entertainment area too... so obviously the larger the better. My neighbours patio runs ~3m out from their house and they've told me they wish they had it one flag extra in depth as it's just a bit too small once the table and chairs are out.


I have a bit of the garden at the bottom sectioned off for the kids to play on, and it'll leave me with a small lawn to be able to enjoy the sun on if need be (my house faces south - with no shade, hence the pergola idea).. Still deciding on if I'm going to go the whole span of the house in pergola width (length?) or just half of it, but am leaning on the whole area so I can hang a hammock etc off it!

Any thoughts?

[Two_Sheds]

Thoughts:

- slabbed/concrete/brickweave gardens contribute to flash flooding, because the heavy rain doesn't get soaked into soil, it just runs off in torrents. So, I'd always try to have as much soil in the garden as poss, esp if all your neighbours have concrete gardens (looking at the big picture)

- but there's no doubt that patios are more user-friendly. Our grass paths turn into mud in the winter, I wish I had a little more paving

- I'd probably have the full length of the house pergola'd: it just looks better. You don't have to have concrete all the way under it though. You could have your plants in the ground in some places, where they'll do better, and you'll have some ground as a soakaway

- plants in pots never do as well as they would in the ground: they need more watering too, and repotting, and faff.



Hammock: love them. I've got this one in my greenhouse, which just folds away into a small cushion shape when not in use. I've had it 9 years now, no rips no tears, super bit of kit

[taff]

fig tree!!!

I'd put the posts in at the end of the pergola, not have the extra flagstone, do it the width. Think about shading though, When everything had grown, you might be reducing the light in the house in the winter and have a build up of algae/moss underneath the pergola part. And in the autumn, you'll be sweeping up leaves everywhere.

might be an idea to build a rocket stove on one end?

[Mikey]

How about pea gravel as opposed to slabs?

I've edged an area and dropped a membrane in then filled to the surface of the pavier about 75mm with pea gravel. Nice thick depth and it doesn't stop you growing through or affect drainage, yet is clean and dryish to walk on.

Another plus is the table and chairs find their own level and don't rock.

Work wise all you have to do is take the turf off and crack on, you'd be done in a weekend easy.

[veggiechicken]

I wouldn't put the posts inside the patio - especially with only 0.5m on the outer edge - you'll be taking shortcuts around those posts all the time - or walking into them
Also, be very careful with your choice of climbers - I thought a kiwi fruit would give me some screening from next door - instead it totally blocked the light and view from the kitchen window. I wouldn't grow anything that would obstruct the sight lines from any window.
Are you going to roof it? Just checking!
What spacing will there be between the uprights?
As taff says, hard surfaces in the shade get wet and slippery so use a textured service and have good drainage.

[chris]

Thoughts:

- slabbed/concrete/brickweave gardens contribute to flash flooding, because the heavy rain doesn't get soaked into soil, it just runs off in torrents. So, I'd always try to have as much soil in the garden as poss, esp if all your neighbours have concrete gardens (looking at the big picture)

We have a drain and adequate draining garden (large soakaway running from my neighbours to mine - as we're at the end of the plot).. but a good point to consider thanks.

fig tree!!!

I'd put the posts in at the end of the pergola, not have the extra flagstone, do it the width. Think about shading though, When everything had grown, you might be reducing the light in the house in the winter and have a build up of algae/moss underneath the pergola part. And in the autumn, you'll be sweeping up leaves everywhere.

might be an idea to build a rocket stove on one end?

Hadn't thought about algea.. the light shouldn't be too much of a problem as my idea would be for roses (or similar along the uprights, and front part) and perhaps a grape coming over - which (so far) I'm planning on keeping in check myself..

How about pea gravel as opposed to slabs?

I've edged an area and dropped a membrane in then filled to the surface of the pavier about 75mm with pea gravel. Nice thick depth and it doesn't stop you growing through or affect drainage, yet is clean and dryish to walk on.

Another plus is the table and chairs find their own level and don't rock.

Work wise all you have to do is take the turf off and crack on, you'd be done in a weekend easy.

I've thought about that Mikey, and have had it before.. but the kids wouldn't be able to ride the bikes on it that easy (we have gravel out the front and around the side of the house).. that's a nightmare as it is - weeds, you sink in it after it's been churned up by heavy rain, etc. The idea for the patio is to extend the kitchen out, by mirroring the floor tiles we have in there (trying to decide between welsh slate or sandstone (probably leaning towards sandstone - but it is very expensive... would you beleive, cheap to ship it in from India than use locally source stone. Bonkers)

I wouldn't put the posts inside the patio - especially with only 0.5m on the outer edge - you'll be taking shortcuts around those posts all the time - or walking into them
Also, be very careful with your choice of climbers - I thought a kiwi fruit would give me some screening from next door - instead it totally blocked the light and view from the kitchen window. I wouldn't grow anything that would obstruct the sight lines from any window.
Are you going to roof it? Just checking!
What spacing will there be between the uprights?
As taff says, hard surfaces in the shade get wet and slippery so use a textured service and have good drainage.

The distance, I'm not 100% sure on yet - most likely 3m between the posts.

I had thought of a gravel edge to the patio, then finished that off with paviers - so I'd be able to grow straight up the posts.. I need to see what my maximum distance I can span... but I'm leaning towards the posts in the ground, not to mention if I ever have to replace it'd be easier.

Distance between the beams.. I'm unsure yet - perhaps 50cm - I need to look into that part further. Both slabs are textured - that was a must !

I may put a Wisteria over the front of the pergola - have fancied one of those for a while.

Thanks

[Mikey]

Slate can get slippy when wet.

[chris]

It's described as non-slip (*shrug*). I'm leaning towards sandstone really, it'll match our floor in the kitchen then. It's just twice the blinking price !

I only mentioned it to the chap, as I wanted the stone locally produced/mined/whatever it's called.

[taff]

rather than putitng posts in the ground, what about the concrete block type things I've seen posts abroad sitting on?

[veggiechicken]

We used Metpost things on spikes - stopped the wooden posts rotting at the base.

[Two_Sheds]

I like metposts, they're easier to use than concrete

[chris]

They won't take the weight of the beams - I've looked into it already.. the only valid option is to build/buy a concrete plinth to rest the posts on - but that ramps up the cost considerably!

[veggiechicken]

Why do you need heavy beams - if they're not supporting anything - just connecting the uprights to the house?

[Two_Sheds]

go on, do it with bamboo canes, Pr1tt St1ck and sellotape, like we do at school

[taff]

kind of like this
http://www.mypatiodesign.com/files/b...gola-Ideas.gif
but more like this really

http://www.rona.ca/images/5503020_L.jpg