Organic or Green

[pigletwillie]

The Soil Association is looking at withdrawing organic status from crops that are airfreighted into the country.

A laudable idea you may say but in reallity this has confused me somewhat.

Organic to me means foods not having chemicals added for whatever reason from sowing to eating.

Green means being sustainable with as low as possible or carbon neutral footprint.

What does being Green have to do with being organic?????

Yes its something to aim for but what about other means of transport for longer shelf life goods, for example organic lentils shipped in from India., They may be organic but certainly not Green in nature but they escape the Soil Associations wrath. Why?

Do you shop green or organic and more importantly do you grow greener or more organically?

I go Green in both respects UNLESS something is produced locally and then organic comes to the fore, I buy English normal apples rather than Australian organic ones for example as its much more sustainable and the apples are provided "in season Green is good and sustainable, non green organic is good but unsustainable.

Choices choices.

[Hazel at the Hill]

Quite right, PW - I think that the SA is dropping a clanger with this one if that's what they plan.

I think that they would be better off keeping the organic status (which is - as you say - all about how the veg is GROWN) BUT insist on a BIGGER LABEL with the country of origin so that it's easier for us busy consumers to see where we are buying from

[Birdie Wife]

Good topic PW, agree totally. I try to buy British wherever possible, but never outside of Europe. If there were apples from the same region but one was organic, I'd go for the organic. Given a choice between green and organic, I'd go green too. When gardening, I'm trying to be greener and more organic but it's sort of shades of green at the moment...

[Digger-07]

I think I am like you PW.

I try to be green all the time and organic when I can. Transportation has always concerned me. I stopped buying organic veg boxes because the local farm shop who supplied them included produce that had travelled miles to get in the box.

Supporting the local economy is in my opinion better than shipping organic stuff into the supermarket, and hopefully will help keep local costs down.

[SarzWix]

Hmmmm. Good question!
This has to come to the forefront of my mind recently with french beans, which i love. We ran out of our own frozen ones ages ago, and I was buying organic ones frm the supermarket, until I realised they were being shipped from Israel... So now I'm eating Bird's Eye frozen ones, (which probably aren't in the least bit organic, but fresher than ones flown across the world) or doing without.
'Organic' is definately not always 'green'!

[smallblueplanet]

For me organic is about how our food is produced, not where. I would prefer organic, local and in season but the supermarkets don't make it easy for farmers do they!

I buy organic rather than local - why should local necessarily be good for the environment? I do recognize the inconsistency of air-freighted food though.

However for all I know the 'local' farmer has used pesticides and herbicides and artificial fertilizers. Left no margin around fields for wildlife and grows no hedges - so whats so great about that local farmer????

[pigletwillie]

For all you know SBP that may well be the case in countries that produce organic food.

In Egypt the beans that are organically grown just outside our hotel for a well known supermarked chain were planted on what was once desert and are watered with the effluent run off from the hotels.

Oh it was treated and clean (tested weekly) but somewhat coloured my view of organic systems in far flung places.

One small question SBP, when the oil runs out and your lovely carbon producing but organic veg no longer arrives from Argentina, Kenya or what ever country it was flown in from, how do you explain to your children that your insistance of eating organic but unsustainably produced food helped to make the planet unsuitable for millions of people to live in as its flooded or too hot or that steam trains are back on the rails as all of the fuel has gone supplying people like you organic carrots from far far away when you turned your nose up at ones produced next door because the field didnt have a wildlife margin.

Oh and yes you do make a difference.

[Alice]

Good topic Piglet. It's just another example of wooly thinking. The onr yhing has nothing to do with the other.
I try not to buy things which are out of season and flown half way round the world. If it can't be produced here I reckon I don't need it. I guess that makes me more green than organic. And I certainly wouldn't buy something that had been transported round the world because it said organic on it. I don't even trust their labelling to that extent. Just does what organic mean on that label. It might not mean what you think it means,

[smallblueplanet]

I do make a difference thanks PW. How about how some inorganic fertilizers are produced - some are a by-product from the petro-chemical industry....its not as straightforward as you would like to suggest.

I'm not suggesting I have to buy organic produce flown in, but if you think that despoiling our own environment is acceptable because the produce that is grown is local, you're wrong - and that is what the organic movement was originally about.

[pigletwillie]

I'm not suggesting I have to buy organic produce flown in, but if you think that despoiling our own environment is acceptable because the produce that is grown is local, you're wrong - and that is what the organic movement was originally about.

No you despoil somebody elses environment.

Sri lanka produces wondefull organic pineapples, but at the expense of prime rainforest and its the same the world over. Feeding us organic food but at devestating consequences to their flora and fauna. Whole eco systems are vanishing, but thats ok because its not in Wiltshire.

[smallblueplanet]

Guess what these countries also produce non-organic cash crops - which is better non-organic factory farmed produce brought in from abroad to satisfy the British consumer or organic produce that is better or less bad for the foreign environment.

Do you naively believe Sri Lanka will stop producing pineapples or Brazil cattle just because we stop buying the organic version?

[smallblueplanet]

And I have to say, that for a moderator your personalising of your arguement against myself (which I have hence returned) was unneccessary.

[pigletwillie]

SBP, I appologise if it came across that way, it isnt at all aimed at you.

My original point was that why are the soil association getting involved in politics and clouding organics with green issues. Organic is organic and I cant see how they can remove their stamp if its airlifted in but stuff that comes in on a boat isnt.

You are a consumer of organic foods but this will mean that some foods you may have bought now wont as they in theory at any rate wont be organic (but they are).

I am also interested in seeing how people relate organic produce to greenness, as I personally cannot see how organic food flow in is green, but then as you rightly say neither is loading crops with lots of sprays.

Your point about countries not stoping importing food in if we stoped buying organic, yes they would to a large extent as the organic price premium would be gone.

Finally my being a moderator in no way prevents me from entering into debates. I merely reponded to your replies.

[smallblueplanet]

.....Your point about countries not stoping importing food in if we stoped buying organic, yes they would to a large extent as the organic price premium would be gone.

I'm not convinced of your arguement at all. Plenty of out of season food, grown abroad (or meat or fish for that matter) is on sale in all supermarkets. They might not get an organic premium but they obviously squeeze farmers enough to make a profit. Otherwise why would Fairtrade exist?

[pigletwillie]

Fairtrade is sold at a fiscal and ethical premium and as you state, most of the other crops are out of season.

But then getting back to the original point, what has green got to do with a product being labelled organic and why the difference between whats brought in via plane and that via a boat?