Myths exploded

[Bill HH]

There a some garden myths that persist without any grounding whatsoever. Yes science is often getting things wrong as new information comes in, but at least scientists are using the best current knowledge based on experiment and observation. Whereas some of these myths/ beliefs have no other grounding than what someone once dreamed up as a likely explanation and this has become ingrained into our thinking without challenge.

[Alison]

What is the difference between scientific fact and belief?

Science is based on the best facts available but beliefs are wishful thinking.


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[Mikey]

You are making an assumption HH, who is to say that the myths that you refer to aren't based on scientific fact from the time. Our ancestors once cultivated vast swathes of the amazon jungle as the soils were very rich, today we'd call it forest gardening but I'm sure at the time it was simply handed down from experience and trial and error.

We are a very complex species Bill, a myth or legend today could have been a learnt lesson based on trial and error once. Isn't that possibly scientific fact?

We can't mock what we believe to be false if we haven't taken the time and effort to disprove it. I'm playing devils advocate here as I have no specific leaning one way or the other, I have plenty of rituals which I've not tested, some I've learnt, some have been passed down, but I'm not sure if I have the time to disprove them at the moment. Maybe when I retire.

[Mikey]

Science is based on the best facts available but beliefs are wishful thinking.

I don't think so, science is merely someone believing something to be true and testing it. As we are human its impossible to be unbiased, and besides most science is funded by private enterprise which test in order to prove or disprove something with an intended goal before they start.

You could say that science is wishful thinking and belief is borne out of experimentation.

[Alison]

I don't think so, science is merely someone believing something to be true and testing it. As we are human its impossible to be unbiased, and besides most science is funded by private enterprise which test in order to prove or disprove something with an intended goal before they start.

You could say that science is wishful thinking and belief is borne out of experimentation.

Proper science most certainly isn't wishful thinking and although I'd agree that some research is funded by people with a bias thorough testing is peer reviewed and not just an abstract hope but then again I have a sneaking suspicion that I've taken the bait and walked straight into a ridiculous discussion. Am reminded somewhat of the old line that we know for a fact that the lady who gave birth to a child is it's mother but it is only belief that her partner is the father (unless Jeremy Kyle is involved......).


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[Mikey]

What do you mean bait Alison!!

Its a theoretical discussion about two sides of the same coin, we can only look at one side at a time and therefore prone to favour one or other. ( I know some of you will be looking at the edge of a coin right now seeing if you can see both sides or not...
It doesn't make either side right or wrong its just a coin. Heads or tails?

[Potstubsdustbins]

#27.

Because PiP as my mate TK would say little onions make big onions.

[lottie dolly]

Proper science most certainly isn't wishful thinking and although I'd agree that some research is funded by people with a bias thorough testing is peer reviewed and not just an abstract hope but then again I have a sneaking suspicion that I've taken the bait and walked straight into a ridiculous discussion. Am reminded somewhat of the old line that we know for a fact that the lady who gave birth to a child is it's mother but it is only belief that her partner is the father (unless Jeremy Kyle is involved......).


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or an emaculate conception,{spelling}

[lottie dolly]

I only use rain water down the plots,if the sun catches through the glass,then yes,it does scorch the leaves,but not found this to be the case in the poly,maybe is is on account of a moist atmoshpere,where as glass is a dry one,

[andy_j]

Tap water makes plants survive

Rainwater makes plants thrive

[Bill HH]

You are making an assumption HH, who is to say that the myths that you refer to aren't based on scientific fact from the time. Our ancestors once cultivated vast swathes of the amazon jungle as the soils were very rich, today we'd call it forest gardening but I'm sure at the time it was simply handed down from experience and trial and error.

We are a very complex species Bill, a myth or legend today could have been a learnt lesson based on trial and error once. Isn't that possibly scientific fact?

We can't mock what we believe to be false if we haven't taken the time and effort to disprove it. I'm playing devils advocate here as I have no specific leaning one way or the other, I have plenty of rituals which I've not tested, some I've learnt, some have been passed down, but I'm not sure if I have the time to disprove them at the moment. Maybe when I retire.

I take you point Mikey but if previous beliefs were based on the science of the time, now the science has improved due to better knowledge we still go on observing the old methods. Call it habit or what you will. Just because our fathers and grand fathers believed in something that doesn't make it right.

[veggiechicken]

I take you point Mikey but if previous beliefs were based on the science of the time, now the science has improved due to better knowledge we still go on observing the old methods. Call it habit or what you will. Just because our fathers and grand fathers believed in something that doesn't make it right.

It doesn't make it wrong either. New isn't always better. Its not always necessary to reinvent the wheel - if one does, ultimately, you come back to the square wheel.
Nah, I don't know what I'm on about either..............

[maytreefrannie]

What is the difference between scientific fact and belief?

One day our childrens children will look back at us and laugh, in the same way we do at people who thought the world was flat.

Fact balony, have you heard that beetroot is now a super food. Will we soon discover that all edible plants are super foods...

I believe the word Science means 'knowledge' - so a true scientist is always open to learning. I believe that some old beliefs seem to work and anyway, they're interesting.

Isn't the world flat? Since when?

Yes, I truly believe that all edible plants are super foods. Einstein is credited with saying, "There are only two ways to live; one is, as if nothing is a miracle, the other is, as if everything is" (a miracle).

[Jeanied]

I've only just come across this thread. I love to hear about a variety of ideas and methods so I can browse and work out which ones suit me best. I don't think you can ever explode gardening lore by saying they are myths and unscientific.

It just occurred to me - did they give you a great big wooden spoon in your MOM parcel, Bill HH, just so you could stir things up? I realise that you are mostly talking with your tongue in your cheek - I just wonder why?

[dim]

You'll have a blast reading the writings Linda Chalker-Scott (PhD Horticulture, Washington State University)

Linda Chalker-Scott

and some specifics (linked from that page)

Leaf scorch: http://puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda%20cha...f%20scorch.pdf

Compost tea: http://puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda%20cha...post%20tea.pdf

“Add a layer of gravel or other coarse material in the bottom of containers to improve drainage” The Myth of Drainage Material in Container Plantings

LOL yea ... Linda Chalker Scott ....

from her blog:
http://puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda%20cha...ea%20again.pdf

quote:
I have a home landscape with many trees, shrubs, and groundcovers. I don't use pesticides except for an occasional shot of Roundup; I don't use fertilizers, unless I can determine a deficiency (most commonly nitrogen, which I add as fish meal only to plants that need it); I don't add anything else to the landscape except wood chips as an organic mulch. I don't have disease problems, I don't have insect pests, I have a
healthy, organic landscape. This tells me that compost tea is not crucial for landscape health. If a landscape has serious soil or plant health problems, it is not likely that compost tea is going to solve the problem.

obviously she only grows plants that are native to her area, and I very much doubt that she grows veg ....

she claims that compost tea (aerated) has very little effect .... perhaps she should try it and then comment . ...