Complicated Situation

[FB.]

So, having read all the additional posts since my first comment. Can we assume that your Bro in law is mentally normal?

Mentally he's probably best described as 'near-normal'. His education suffered in his teens when his illness began and he didn't spend many years working before his illness got bad enough that he couldn't work. Fifteen to twenty years ago he would catch buses to other nearby towns and villages to go shopping - and he'd choose presents and cards for people. At that time he could have lived by himself in the same way as elderly people do - only needing someone to drop in a couple of times a week to keep an eye on him.

is there a chance that he plays on his condition, to keep his Mother at his beck and call

I wouldn't say he plays on his condition because it is undoubtedly severe, but he seems to enjoy the huge amounts of attention it gets him - and quite possibly the mother-in-law enjoys having her 'baby' to look after.

...I don't wish to pry, or sound rude...Sorry if that sounds heartless, it isn't meant to...

Don't worry about it. There's a potentially serious issue needing to be resolved and some potentially touchy subjects need to be discussed. Ask away. Speculate over possible hidden agendas.

[noviceveggrower]

Hi,
By the sounds of it at the end of the day you are going to have to sit down with everyone involved and have a chat.
It is going to be really hard on everyone but everyone needs to know what the situation is and where everyone stands.
You will need to agree with your wife what the plan of conversation is and where you both are on the situation and what is going to happen in the future. It needs to be sorted now so everyone understands how you feel and what pressure it is being put on your family.
There are people out there specially trained to look after your BIL. Wether he likes it or not he needs to be told what is happening and what will happen. I personally think you'd be mad taking him on if your in laws are taken poorly, heaven forbid, and are unable to look after him for some time.
Don't be swayed by family members who have minimal input. My mom listened to them for years and it wasn't till a specialist told her she couldn't cope anymore and if she didn't let my nan go into a nursing home then she would have my nan sectioned to have her dementia assessed.
I know it is hard I saw my family been torn apart by it, there is even now bad feelings about certain things. With a lot of for sight I'm sure things would of been differently.

[Glutton4...]

Mentally he's probably best described as 'near-normal'. His education suffered in his teens when his illness began and he didn't spend many years working before his illness got bad enough that he couldn't work. Fifteen to twenty years ago he would catch buses to other nearby towns and villages to go shopping - and he'd choose presents and cards for people. At that time he could have lived by himself in the same way as elderly people do - only needing someone to drop in a couple of times a week to keep an eye on him...

I wouldn't say he plays on his condition because it is undoubtedly severe, but he seems to enjoy the huge amounts of attention it gets him - and quite possibly the mother-in-law enjoys having her 'baby' to look after...

Don't worry about it. There's a potentially serious issue needing to be resolved and some potentially touchy subjects need to be discussed. Ask away. Speculate over possible hidden agendas.

Well, I think you're very brave to discuss this openly with us 'strangers' but, it can often be the best way to get a perspective on things. You and your Wife are going to have a difficult job on your hands, and I appreciate that you're dreading tackling it, but I admire you for doing so, and not just hiding from the issues you face. Here's a virtual ((HUG)) to you both from me, and congratulations on your little bundle of joy.

[FB.]

Well, I think you're very brave to discuss this openly with us 'strangers' but, it can often be the best way to get a perspective on things.

I think 'outsiders' are able to look at things logically, with a fresh mind, some new ideas and perhaps the benefit of experience. There are many people on here with plenty of common sense and experience who can offer - and have offered - useful and thought-provoking comments. I appreciate all the comments everyone has made and re-read every comment from start to finish this morning to check that I hadn't missed anything.

I have nothing to lose by discussing it, and potentially a lot to gain.

...I admire you for doing so, and not just hiding from the issues you face...

I prefer to deal with problems as soon as reasonably possible, so I can get on with enjoying life without a dark cloud hanging over me.
By dealing with what we can see as likely problems, it will make any unconnected and unforeseen problems easier to deal with.
Leaving known problems festering only makes life even more miserable when yet another completely different problem crops up and needs dealing with at the same time.

[ancee]

Bless you, we all have our own set of problems unique to us don't we? Hope you find a solution, like winning the lottery then you can scoop them all up and put them nearer you in a mansion with 24 care on tap for all

[greenishfing]

I agree that you have to get all the people involved together for a serious discussion.

Several years ago my narcissistic mother who had spent her life making the family's life a misery with her lies and "divide and rule" policy fell seriously ill.

At the time one sister (a nurse)had a small child, one had a child and a demanding business and my husband (who she couldn't stand) was having heart problems.

For the first time ever in our adult lives we got together and between us devised a strategy.

We called in all the professional help that we could (originally against her wishes as she couldn't manipulate them easily)

I accompanied her to all her doctor and specialist appointments.

I also contacted her doctor by letter to explain a few things.

Above all my sisters and I decided that whatever happened we would at all times work together to look after her but not let her wreck our lives and let her poisonous lies divide us.

For example: She would ring me and say she needed me to come over (but don't bring your husband) I would go over with my husband (who I daren't leave alone, as she well knew) or ring one of my sisters who both lived nearer and they would go.

Eventually (after I had a disk prolapse after struggling to help her out of the bath) social services did help a lot.

Oddly enough the more impersonal care was better for everyone.

We were still there, more or less continuously between us, and I'm sure she told her carers and nurses how awful we were, but their professional attitude was so good with dealing with her.

I can only suggest that your parents start to get professional help now and get the staff used to your BIL, just in case, and the whole family gets together to discuss contingency plans for future problems.

Although my mother died a few months later the one positive outcome was that my sisters and I are now quite close.

[Patchninja]

Just a final comment from me - I said that you needed to move abroad to avoid this kind of issue ...... I was talking to a new colleague yesterday who told me that her in-laws have sold up in England and followed them here.........;she's not a happy bunny!
It is a serious problem although I may sound flippant, I don't mean to. Lots of excellent advice on ths forum.

[FB.]

Well it looks like things are going to come to a head very soon.
The FIL and MIL came to visit in the last few days and as usual brought BIL with them (they'd taken him shopping on the way over).

But when they arrived BIL refused to get out of the car.
So they left him in the car and checked on him every 15 minutes for about three hours!

Every time they went to check on him he stroppily demanded that they GO HOME NOW!
He also said he didn't want to come over again and would not get into the car in future.

From some things FIL and MIL said, it sounds as if they intend to get carers involved so they don't have to go through all this every time they want to go out.

[Patchninja]

Well, I feel for you and your family. That's a real, childish tantrum from an adult. You'll have to pull up the drawbridge to an extent. I agree with all who have said that your family is your priority and that it's time for the pros!!!

[marchogaeth]

Can I suggest that you and your wife talk to your health visitor about your concerns. I am sure you won't be the first family who have had these concerns and s/he might have some good suggestions as well as being within the "caring" services so that s/he might be able to get appropriate people involved.

Someone I know is in the situation your PiL are in with BiL, which is basically they have made a rod for their own backs by beings so caring. BiL is an adult and should be contributing to his care and management as much as he can and contributing to the quality of his parents lives as much as he can. If you MiL is strong enough to stand up to him by getting in help or just saying she can't look after him any more - hats off to her- I can't find much sympathy to someone who behaves like he does towards people to whom he clearly owes not only his life but his current quality of life. (Honestly, I'm quite tolerant really!)

[Glutton4...]

It certainly sounds like your Wife's Brother is a very selfish person. I'm very glad that your In-Laws decided to make a stand, and let him 'sweat it out' in the car. It may prove to be a turning point - with luck.

[Alison]

It certainly sounds like your Wife's Brother is a very selfish person. I'm very glad that your In-Laws decided to make a stand, and let him 'sweat it out' in the car. It may prove to be a turning point - with luck.

My first thoughts were that he sounded like a very scared person and this is coming out in a rather childish manner. If he is so reliant on other people for his care (and I should imagine he's quite aware of the state of his condition if it's as much on a knife edge as described) then it must be very frightening to think that this may be taken away from you. I'm not condoning his behaviour but somebody does need to talk to him to make sure he knows (and it's not always as obvious as you would think) that people do care about him (fine to point out that this doesn't mean that they always like how he behaves) and that you'll all work together to ensure that he gets appropriate care but that the family needs some support otherwise it will make other people ill (physically or mentally).

[SammieB]

My first thoughts were that he sounded like a very scared person and this is coming out in a rather childish manner. If he is so reliant on other people for his care (and I should imagine he's quite aware of the state of his condition if it's as much on a knife edge as described) then it must be very frightening to think that this may be taken away from you.

Yes, it sounds that way to me too.

[FB.]

It certainly sounds like your Wife's Brother is a very selfish person.

He seems to be especially bad since our baby arrived a couple of months ago.
Before the baby was born we would often visit my wife's parents (in recent years we tended to visit them much more often than they visited us) and he seemed very enthusiastic about the baby.
But since the baby was born he doesn't seem to want anything to do with the baby and doesn't want to come round to visit.
A couple of years ago he would comment on how he liked coming round to our house.
Now he just wants us all to 'shut up!' and 'let's go home now!'.

My guess is that BIL feels threatened by the new baby; he is no longer the centre of attention.

I'm certainly interested to see what happens this coming weekend; we've traditionally had MIL and FIL (and BIL) come over for a roast dinner on mother's day and father's day. But what will BIL do? A few days ago he implied that 'next time' he wouldn't even get into the car.......

[Glutton4...]

My first thoughts were that he sounded like a very scared person and this is coming out in a rather childish manner...

Very good point - I hadn't even considered that.