Organic Gardening? I'm so confused.

[DWSmith]

I don't know if this is a touchy subject here or not but maybe I shouldn't ask this. My curiousity is getting the better of me.

Just what the heck is 'organic gardening' and why does organic gardening use 'inorganic soil amendments'???

Chemicals are bashed but what isn't chemical? Water is chemical!

They talk about using ground limestone in organic gardening but ground limestone is not organic.

They bash petroleum derived products but how much more organic can you get than dinosaur oil?

Organic, as in organic chemistry, has to do with carbon based items. Rock powders are not carbon based but they are made of 'natural' substances.

Can anyone explain this mess to me?

At this point I'm willing to use inorganic and organic, natural and synthetic inputs with some limitations.

Thanks,
Dan

[Shadylane]

Not everything that is organic or natural is good for you or the soil, just like not all chemicals are bad. Organic gardeners use natural methods which support nature rather than fight it and they avoid using harmful chemicals, obviously not water. Does that help? Otherwise, as they say: 'I got nothin'. '

[ButternutSquash]

The term organic has nothing to do with the usage in chemistry. Organic gardeners avoid most chemicals i.e pesticides and fertilisers, preferring more natural ones such as compost, and pyrethrin derived from plants. I use slug pellets, but do not spray, and feed with blood fish and bone, and tomato feed. I grow mostly organic. Artificial fertilisers tend to be absorbed too quickly, causing fast but weak growth. Natural ones release more slowly.

[Thelma Sanders]

I think of it as natural gardening............... only add things to the garden that were made naturally................... compost, various manures, seaweed and fertllizers from natural sources.
Limestone was laid down naturally, as were all the rocks for rock dusts, so not a problem IMO.

The BBC makes it easy

Fertilisers
Fertilisers are basically divided into two groups:

Organic: from natural sources like plants, animals or naturally occurring rock.

Inorganic: man-made, manufactured ‘chemical’ feeds.

Plants don’t care where their nutrients come from, just so long as they get enough, but from a gardeners’ point of view, organic fertilisers have the edge because they encourage soil bacteria, which help keep soil healthy.

BBC - Gardening - How to be a gardener - Caring for your garden - Fertilisers

[marchogaeth]

There is not going to be one simple answer to your question and you have already identified that it is a "box of frogs" in terms of getting a straightforward answer and knowing where to go for yourself. You probably need to do a bit of research and reading for yourself, start looking at the products that are in your garden centre, browse a few organic catalogues etc. I've had a quick google and this is quite a sensible explanation IMO.
organic gardening tips, home garden, vegetable garden, family garden | Instant Organic Garden

I prefer to think of sustainable gardening and this site is quite interesting sustainable garden

I will tell you I am an organic (but I prefer sustainable) gardener and farmer. I use nothing man made to help my plants grow or control pests and diseases. I try to recycle/reuse as much as possible eg cardboard on beds, plastic bottle for drip watering. On the farm though, if my sheep are ill I will treat them with drugs if that is the only thing that will work. I use an antiseptic spray which is man made all be it based on iodine. The rules for Organic standard farming are so flexible that some years a registered organic grower could use more drugs than I do (I refuse to register - it is a money making con for the registering bodies).

At the most basic level, I worm my cats and they go on the garden.

I see so many "organic" gardeners who spend their weekends rushing around the country in their cars to visit shows/country houses etc without a thought as to their carbon footprint.

"Beware the organo-fascists my son........"

All opinions expressed in this post are my own, I do not have any particular Vine member in mind when I make these comments.

[Jeanied]

I try and use natural methods / remedies as much as possible - I live in an area where humans have polluted the soil for centuries and I don't want to add to it! I was horrified to hear about the pesticides and fungicides they found on ordinary packs of salad leaves - I am glad I can grow my own

[Bill HH]

Organic is an unfortunate term. The question as to whether something is organic or not occupies a lot of minds. Nearly every egg on the supermarket shelves claims to be organic free range? but where are these millions of chickens, I often travel up the M5 from Exeter to Birmingham and guess what Not a chicken in sight. I never see them, the countryside would be awash with them if so many were running around. Its a big con. Similarly with veg, a farmer who has obtained organic status is in my opinion going to make up any shortages in say carrots by buying any old carrots and calling them organic, who is to know.

All you can do is negotiate the mine field as best you can. For me I don't use weed killer apart from on pathways, I use a lot of Fish blood and bone, I don't use insect sprays but I do use slug pellets sparingly. Is my garden 100% organic? probably not.

[marchogaeth]

Bill you do know you can get "organic" slug pellets don't you? They only kill slugs not everything else.

PS Think you are a bit harsh on the old organic carrot farmer there! However, anything from abroad labeled organic is apparently very, very suspect (and that's not being racist) it's a fact due to the lack of rules and controls in many countries.

I used to use the "total kill" weed killers on paths etc but since I found out how long the product can last in the soil (all be it not in it's actual killer form) and how it builds up, I won't use it.

For me the real "organic" tell is that if you have organic status but keep "pet horses" they are exempt from the rules and although the regulating bodies would prefer you not to worm them they can't stop you. In theory, this means that horses could be wormed every 6 weeks - the dung for the next 24 hours is especially toxic to beetles including the ones that kill so many slugs.

[bearded bloke]

Organic is a "buzz word" in the UK for farms to sell produce as "organic" they must pass stringent tests laid down by the Soil Association,so far so good.
Said farms are permitted to spray potato &/or tomato crops with Bordeaux (Bordo) Mix to help control blight & still sell them as "organic".
Bordeaux (Bordo) Mix is made from slaked lime & copper sulphate both of which are officially classed as ... inorganic.
Also take into consideration that over time there will be a build up of copper in the soil which itself will then be deemed a pollutant.

Regarding hens ..........

Free Range: is a management system in which adult birds are kept in houses with daily access to an uncovered outdoor area weather permitting. The minimum outdoor space requirement is 2 square feet (0.19 square meters) per bird to meet the Animal Care Standards for Free Range.

Taken from .. What are the requirements for calling eggs "free range?"


If you want a longer read,here's what DEFRA say .... https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...ens-020130.pdf

[marchogaeth]

You back up my basic point, BB. I have had concerns about Bordeux Mix for years. It's "organic" because it's not "man made" (naturally occurring inorganic (chemically speaking) materials) but with all sorts of implications attached to them.

As for organic eggs well there are many flocks that don't go out for weeks on end because the "weather does not permit."

As I said, "Beware the organo-fascist, my son....."

[bearded bloke]

Indeed marchogaeth,everything in gardening,as in life is a trade off.
It would be great to put on the rose tinted glasses & grow only the foodstuffs that nature intended in the way that nature intended.But in the real world there is an ever increasing population,all of who need feeding & to do that mother nature needs help from the scientists,herbicides,pesticides & all the other "ides" are here to stay if we want/need them or not (insert joke about Caeser not needing the ides of March).
The balance for the home grower (I think) is not to put anything on your crop that you wouldn't put in your mouth,that said,I had to live off only my home produce I would be a VERY skinny fella

[marchogaeth]

Not to spoil the joke but it's mark-og-eye-th! So Markhhh - like lockhhhh in Scotland.

The trouble is that things like the use (continued?) of Aminopyralid make you have no confidence in the guardians of our food production.

The balance for the home grower (I think) is not to put anything on your crop that you wouldn't put in your mouth,that said,I had to live off only my home produce I would be a VERY skinny fella.

I don't think anything I did would make me skinny! Not unless it was putting pee, slug pellets or comfrey tea etc in my mouth!

[bearded bloke]

whoops,sorry I see what you mean (sorry,no offense intended)

They make some great cheeses in the Preseli Hills,must get over that way & re-stock sometime.

[Kirk]

Organic is very difficult to draw a specific line around.
Organic gardensers wil not use a systemic insecticide, they will however spray with a soap solution. When did you last see fairy liquid in solution falling from the sky? Also soap is produced in a chemical works and have you seen what is in it these days?

The dividing line is almost dependant on your point of view, and possibly even to the plants that you are growing, or pests you are trying to kill off.

Many count BFB as Organic, it is however produced in a chemical works. There is not a BFB mine or spring anywhere.

Concerning Free Range, the term is curious. There was mention this morning on the radio of Free Range Scotch Eggs, and the Sainsbury's near me sells Free Range Pork Sausages - I have never yet seen a field of sausages roaming freely, and what exactly lays scotch eggs?

[marchogaeth]

OK BB, now you are replying to posts while I'm editing them - spooky.