Organic Gardening? I'm so confused.

[bearded bloke]

*^^^^Chuckles,Good here innit

[Two_Sheds]

ground limestone is not organic.

er, yes it is. In this context, organic means naturally occurring, not created synthetically, in a lab


You can choose not to follow organic rules, without feeling the need to "bash" those who do

[Alison]

As for organic eggs well there are many flocks that don't go out for weeks on end because the "weather does not permit.

If I drive to the farm near us where I buy my eggs you have to be very careful that you don't run over the little blighters, they're out in all weathers. Often wonder how many they loose but am guessing it's fine or they'd fence them in a bit more. OK I can't be 100% sure of their diet but I do know they're extremely free range . Not sure of the size of flock, a decent size and enough for them to make a business out of it but clearly not on the major industrial scale of the big shed boys. I prefer to buy from smaller scale producers and tend to be far more suspicious of the larger organisations.

Organic gardensers wil not use a systemic insecticide, they will however spray with a soap solution. When did you last see fairy liquid in solution falling from the sky? Also soap is produced in a chemical works and have you seen what is in it these days?

I live a few miles from a large Lever Bros factory, soap does indeed come down in the rain if you go past there or a night.............. Agree about the nasties in soap, that's why I make my own, don't want SLS and parabens anywhere near by body thanks and since I've removed them from my diet / toiletries I've cleared up a few health / skin issues without any creams and medication

[Scarlet]

I don't think anything I did would make me skinny! Not unless it was putting pee, slug pellets or comfrey tea etc in my mouth!

I'm so with you on that one!

[Scarlet]

I try to be as chemical free as possible....I garden without sprays, I won't use slug pellets and I don't use weed killer on my paths. I feed with my compost, nettle tea and the juice from my worm bin. I use manure and alpaca poo from friends. I wouldn't call myself organic, I just want to feed my family veg that hasn't been messed with.

[ButternutSquash]

I think it is about common sense gardening, rather than gardening according to the desires of chemical firms. I have few pests due to the way I grow, but pea and bean weevil is an issue, so seedlings will be raised in small pots next year. People like the late Geoffrey Hamilton and Charles Dowding have encouraged healthy cultural methods. Plant at times to avoid pests, have nearby flowers to attract predators, tidy up to discourage slugs, weed before they go to seed, make your own compost, avoid digging and so on. I have a large herb bed, which I am sure helps. I do have some issues such as ants and cat muck. Nothing miniature anti-personnel mines won't solve.

Quite often 'chemicals' are used to solve a problem that should have been avoided. Large scale farmers plant mono cultures, and cannot hand weed, or have flowering herbs nearby to attract predators. That is why organic costs, it requires more labour.

But I don't know any organic way to get a weed free lawn. I use a selective weedkiller.

[Potstubsdustbins]

Can I just say this is one of the most sensible discussions I have read for a long time.

I cannot claim to be organic or natural but I do try to be sensible about what and how I use feeds etc.

There is one thing for sure the only way you know what your eating is to grow it yourself. Last year I found a local green grocer going to a large well known cash & carry to buy veg. This was then displayed outside his shop at inflated prices claiming to be locally grown etc. I made a complaint to trading standards result................ nothing done.

[Bill HH]

PS Think you are a bit harsh on the old organic carrot farmer there! However, anything from abroad labeled organic is apparently very, very suspect (and that's not being racist) it's a fact due to the lack of rules and controls in many countries.

.

Farmers are no more honest or dishonest than the rest of society. Some of them do not give a tinkers cuss for regulations and if they can charge 50% more for organic then its an invitation for jiggery pokery. I know it goes on a lot.
Take the use of antibiotics, when used in milking cows there is a period when the milk must not be used for human consumption, I knew farmers who just burst out laughing if you suggested they throw this milk away, into the tank it went.
The problem with commercial organic food is that it is almost impossible to detect abuses and so in consequence abuses go on all the time. Paying extra for organic, unless you know the source 100% is basically just a waste of money.

The only way to know is if you have grown it yourself.

[bearded bloke]

I agree with you on this Bill...

Paying extra for organic, unless you know the source 100% is basically just a waste of money.

The only way to know is if you have grown it yourself.

But ...

Take the use of antibiotics, when used in milking cows there is a period when the milk must not be used for human consumption, I knew farmers who just burst out laughing if you suggested they throw this milk away, into the tank it went.

This has been sorted by more stringent laboratory checks on every tanker load at the dairy,furthermore every farm bulk tank that is loaded into the tanker is sampled by the tanker driver,to identify where the impurities came from should the tanker load fail it's test.

[Bill HH]

I agree with you on this Bill...


But ...



This has been sorted by more stringent laboratory checks on every tanker load at the dairy,furthermore every farm bulk tank that is loaded into the tanker is sampled by the tanker driver, to identify where the impurities came from should the tanker load fail it's test.

Yes I knew a bloke who did the testing and it is strict but one cows milk mixed with 100 others makes for very minute quantities, some farmers gamble on this. besides its not just milk its all meat and eggs too. Our food chain is riddles with antibiotics. I am not sure if its the same now but poultry food came stuffed with antibiotics at therapeutic levels just in case the chickens got a disease and in cattle it was used to promote growth. Many cull cows have been on large doses of antibiotics and just before it dies the farmer rushes it to market to at least get some money back, its sold for processing into pies, burgers etc and to buyers who may not be so careful where that sort of thing is concerned..
There seems to be a blind trust in our food industry that in my opinion is in no way warranted, just look at the horse meat scandal, they all knew it was going on but preferred to look the other way for the sake of profit.

Even the general public is guilty, we buy a lettuce and never question why it has no slugs or insects on it, we know in our heart of hearts its because its been dosed with toxic chemicals but seem to prefer that to meeting a slug on our plates,

[Nicos]

I'm sure it does happen still Bill- if there is money in doing something 'wrong' someone somewhere will try and get away with it.
It is a s ad fact, but it is human nature that some people are like that...although perhaps some things are accidental.

Mad cow disease???...well- feeding processed animal protein back to herbivorse was just asking for something to go wrong wasn't it????

EU regulations stipulate fresh and cooked meat should not be served in a shop next to each other....take a look at all French butcher shops...cooked meat and raw in trays next to each other- and butchers who don't was their hands between handling them.
I've seem fresh blood drip onto uncovered pate before now.....eeewwwww...

EU regs????hmmph!

And going back to chemicals/organic..I too try to be as organic as possible, but am prepared to use the odd chemical if push comes to shove...

[Bill HH]

When mad cow disease was at its height farmers who spotted the early signs of the disease in an animal that was potentially worth £500 for beef was faced with a stark choice, get it slaughtered now or face a huge loss in income. I used to go to kidderminster market and all the prime beef went through the ring first, at the end of the sale all the cull livestock went through, old dairy cows mostly, some with clear signs of mastitis or other ailments, straight away all the buyers for Indian restaurants and buyers for processed food such as pies and burgers would pop up and buy them. I still refuse to buy pies, pasties or curries to this day unless I can be sure it is from a very reliable source. Do people really believe these things contain prime beef? It is all the unsavoury stuff which is then steamed and cooked for hours to make it edible or combined with so much curry that you have no idea what the original meat was.
I cant grow my own meat unfortunately but I can grow vegetables.

[Thelma Sanders]

How did we get from gardening to antibiotics in milk?

I bet the OP in the USA is totally confused now LOL

[Nicos]

^^^^^ ...need to keep peeps on their toes you know

[Bren In Pots]

How did we get from gardening to antibiotics in milk?

I bet the OP in the USA is totally confused now LOL

I spray my courgettes with diluted milk when the leaves look like they've got powdery mildew. seems to work as well.