Interesting article on comparing organic farming and traditional farming.

[DWSmith]

I like this statement, "You would improve your nutritional intake far more by eating a larger volume of fruits and vegetables than by eating organic ones instead of conventionally produced ones."

Mythbusting 101: Organic Farming > Conventional Agriculture | Science Sushi, Scientific American Blog Network

[Two_Sheds]

Organic growing is done for the benefit of wildlife.


eg. aphids feed ladybirds & hoverflies, which feed birds & pollinate our veg. Insectivorous birds then help us back, by eating pests

[mothhawk]

^^^^^^^ Plus you save money by not buying sprays and poisons every year

The first year or two of organic gardening can be hard work, as you have to hand pick pests until predators build up enough to do the controlling for you and the soil becomes fertile enough to make plants strong and healthy enough to resist pest attacks and diseases, but once it starts to get in balance, it can be amazing.

For example, I only saw greenfly in the garden for less than a week this year. They didn't get the chance to multiply to plague proportions, because those first few were eaten by predators and birds.

[Alison]

I like this statement, "You would improve your nutritional intake far more by eating a larger volume of fruits and vegetables than by eating organic ones instead of conventionally produced ones."

Mythbusting 101: Organic Farming > Conventional Agriculture | Science Sushi, Scientific American Blog Network

There are so many reasons why somebody might want (or not want) to grow organically, even nutritional intake isn't that simple (what is?). I want to minimise my touch on the planet as much as I can so add as little as possible that will impact on this. If I do have to buy, I'll go for small scale and local first (in which case I usually go to the farm shops as there are loads round here), small scale as I hate big business (so much important stuff seems to be forgotten when people get remote from what they're doing) and local as food miles and speed of being about to eat the product matter to me too. Can't understand why people buy organic veggies from half way across the world, how can this be a good idea? TS's point about the wildlife is also important, chemical warfare harms bees, whatever some people claim (or the total reason for why), their population is declining and if it goes beyond a certain point then we're all doomed - doomed I tell you

Sorry for the mini-rant, any report that starts with Mythbusting is inevitably based on the author proving a particular point when the truth is almost always somewhere in between. Interestingly enough organic here (UK) isn't the same as organic in the US or other parts of Europe, depends on the certifying body (and the fact that some of the supermarkets certify their own products is deeply suspicious!)

[marchogaeth]

I like this statement, "You would improve your nutritional intake far more by eating a larger volume of fruits and vegetables than by eating organic ones instead of conventionally produced ones."

Mythbusting 101: Organic Farming > Conventional Agriculture | Science Sushi, Scientific American Blog Network

This thread is in danger of repeating so much of what was already discussed on the thread you started last week. It's not that it isn't worth repeating, like the people who have replied so far I am passionate about low impact/sustainable/organically gardening (and much else actually). It is the certification system and the bureaucracy around it that I dislike ("Organo fascists" in my book). Like Alison says the idea of shipping "organic" round the world is crazy. None of the people who post here are losing crops because they use low impact systems, no one on here has got rubbish yields because they are using low impact systems. It's not "organic" for organic's sake we are producing food for ourselves and we want it to be the healthiest it can be for us and the environment.

People have made their mind up (including the members who use some/many "non-organic" methods) as I think you indicated you had on the previous thread there is little point in posting links to one sided arguments which back up either point of view.

[ButternutSquash]

I agree with the above comments. At first I thought the article was interesting, and there are some very interesting points - 25% of 'organic' produce had non organic pesticide residues - but it seems more interested in writing a gee whiz journalistic piece, rather than a balanced and thoughtful piece. No mention of the development of glyphosate resistance developing in fields of crops with a glyphosate resistant gene, and the increased use of glyphosate. No mention of policing organic growing. Etc.

This is a forum for home growers, organic principles are good sense, how to improve yield by having a healthy plot, and having healthy fauna, or at least I hope the bloody fat raspberry fed black birds are happy.

[marchogaeth]

........ having healthy fauna, or at least I hope the bloody fat raspberry fed black birds are happy.

There's a nematode you can get for those it's called Felis catus and is readily available. Unfortunately, it has no natural predators so only sterilized/neutered ones should be used. (Now I'm on a banned subject! (I said subject not substance, VC!)

[veggiechicken]

Tangentising a bit here - but is this one of your Nema-toads, Marchogaeth

[ButternutSquash]

There's a nematode you can get for those it's called Felis catus and is readily available. Unfortunately, it has no natural predators so only sterilized/neutered ones should be used. (Now I'm on a banned subject! (I said subject not substance, VC!)

Yes, and I have their 'deposits' on my lawn. Three large recent ones, surprisingly big given the size of a cat. Or maybe a neighbour creeps over, and leaves something, who knows. I'd rather have big fat happy birds.

[DWSmith]

I'm sorry to have upset some of you.

[Alison]

I'm sorry to have upset some of you.

You've not upset me at all, hope I didn't come over that way, it was parts of the article I found irritating, seemed rather lazy journalism whereas your posts cone across as enquiring and interesting on the who's which is fine

[DWSmith]

You've not upset me at all, hope I didn't come over that way, it was parts of the article I found irritating, seemed rather lazy journalism whereas your posts cone across as enquiring and interesting on the who's which is fine

Thanks Alison.

I didn't want to come across as bashing organic gardening. After seeing 'organic' this and 'organic' that advertised for so long I thought everyone had just accepted it as the perfect way to grow fruits and vegetables and raise livestock. To see that there is some controversy regarding 'organic' was quite refreshing to me.

Personally, I'm trying to learn from different methods but I've never used pesticides on my vegetables or fruits. (I even hesitate to spray anything on my lawn.) I prefer to fertilize with more natural substances. I've used cottonseed meal and compost. I'm interested in rock powders, bone meal, blood meal, elemental sulfur, etc., some of which I've used. I am looking for substitutes for synthetic fertilizers but I'm not really against them. They don't seem to be effective for very long which can be a disadvantage when you use the correct amount and an advantage when you overdo it. Also, if your vegetables need a quick shot in the arm of fertilizer synthetic has an advantage.

I'm still developing my preferences and I'm sure they'll change quite a bit as I get more experience.

I really did find the article interesting due to organic farming being questioned. I did see a couple of gaps in the logic used to justify the author's position. It made me think, which is good.

[dim]

you need a brix meter to compare the brix values of organic versus traditional farming.... organic always scores higher

here is the brix chart:
http://www.highbrixgardens.com/pdf/brix-chart.pdf

many top chefs in the USA now take a brix meter to markets to check the quality of the vegetables on offer

[marchogaeth]

you need a brix meter to compare the brix values of organic versus traditional farming.... organic always scores higher

here is the brix chart:
http://www.highbrixgardens.com/pdf/brix-chart.pdf

many top chefs in the USA now take a brix meter to markets to check the quality of the vegetables on offer

That is so interesting. I wonder if it could be used in reverse to say check whether produce labeled organic is genuine. When you say "always", Dim, are there stats?

[Rocketron]

"Brix" appears to measure sugar levels, nothing else.
How are we supposed to judge nutritional levels from this ?