What an incredible sentiment

[Starling]

One for the vegetarians out there--I'm looking at you veggiechicken!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zjaSEwuQws

[Knight of Albion]

Thank you for posting.

I hope everyone will stay to watch the full, unedited version that follows ...

[Knight of Albion]

And this little fellow, bless his heart.

(I prefer them standing up too ...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrU03da2arE

[jackarmy]

Unfourtunatley animal cruelty is what it is, in all its forms it is evil.
However, as an animal lover and and a meat eater there is nothing i personally can do nothing about it appart from protest, buy "organic" ( some forms of organic , free range ets are laughable and meaningless tbh) or abstein .
I will always eat meat and always stand up for animal rights but with a billion billion people to feed, its here to stay and will only get worse.

[muddled]

A very thoughtful and articulate little boy!

I love the earthling video too.
This is turning out to be a vry inspiring thread...

[muddled]

but with a billion billion people to feed, its here to stay and will only get worse.

I agree with lots of what oyu say...except this bit!
Farmed meat is possibly the least efficient way to feed people (and I say this without prejudice, it's just maths ) the amount of grain required to feed a cow would provide so much more human food than the slaughtered cow will in the end.

[jackarmy]

Im not saying that grain isnt the way to go or that it isnt cheaper, simply that meat is here to stay and no ammount of lobbying will end that fact.
The bottom line is quite simple as far im concerned, my teeth after several thousand years of evolution tell me that im omniverous. Vegetarianism is a lifestyle choice made for the right reasons but is not for all.

Maybe if this world ever realises that god doesnt exist and no one but us can take care of this planet then maybe things will change, but thats another convo i guess.

Anyway, my piece has been said and im sorry if i offended anyone with anythin i said, my oppinion only.

[Starling]

Just a word of caution for everyone; Earthlings is a great documentary, but it is also one of the most graphic, and confronting things I've ever seen. Definitely not something you'd want your kids watching, and definitely not for the faint of heart. Very, very hard to watch.

Jack I believe in the future meat will be produced artificially in lab type settings. We're really not far away from that right now. I'm pescatarian (only meat I eat is fish) which is better than being totally omni in an ecological sense but is still fraught with problems, commercial fishing being the main one. Tuna is now farmed in Australia (from eggs) but apparently the issue is that they still need to feed them meat based feeds, so there's a way to go. Girlfriend is vegan, I tried it and wound up getting pretty sick after a few months. It is doable, but you really, really have to be on to it all the time especially if you work a labor job--there's not many people out there who do veganism well for this reason, especially considering that a lot of these fake meats are worse for you than the real thing.

Yes, you are right that humans are designed to eat meat. Our closest realtives (chimps) do and our stomach enzymes and digestive system as a whole make it pretty clear we're designed to be omni. If this wasn't the case, we'd have a digestive system like that of a cow. That said, we definitely aren;t meant to eat a lot of meat, and when we do, we should have earned the privelege by expending very large amounts of energy, because in the conditions of the natural world, we would have had to use a lot of energy to chase down quarry. In a natural setting, this would have resulted in an equilibrium--spend a lot of energy to obtain a very energy rich food source. Unfortunately, these days we can just buy it from the store--and I believe that this is why a lot of people have weight problems (along with sugar consumption). I don't think people realise how energy dense meat is. In fact if you look at all these diet programs (weight watchers etc) you'll find that all the pre-cooked meals are very low in meat, and it is really only there for flavour. The japanese and Chinese are the world's slimmest people and their traditional diet is very similar to this also--lots of vegetables, pure carbs, and a little meat for taste.

Also I have no problem with people catching their own meat (I'm a fisherman, have been since a kid) but resent hunting as a sport--killing things for fun, not for food, is pathologically insane.

[Potstubsdustbins]

I used to be a sea fisherman I ate what I caught.

I used to shoot I ate what I shot except for vermin.

I still eat meat and will continue to do so, but I do try to ensure it is ethically produced NO halal or kosher for me.

[Knight of Albion]

22 bags of spuds

Patrik Baboumian Breaks World Record with 'Vegan Power' | Ecorazzi

[World record verified]

[Jungle Jane]

I dont think we were made to eat meat. We are flexible in that we are capable of eating meat,by using weapons to kill we don't need sharp teeth,our teeth are flat,our jaws would dislocate in battle with prey & we have no claws. Using fire to cook our stomachs can avoid bacteria,our stomachs are only moderately acidic,bacteria can & does survive. To show you what kind of hunters we are,try catching an animal that doesn't want to be caught (without weapons).

[muddled]

A friend of mine was veggie.
He was a big fella and a very good cook. He paid a lot of attention to protein levels and trace elements.

Anyway, he wasn't very well for quite a while and eventually was referred to Kings college hospital. Kings is where you're sent (in London) for allergy testing and gastro type investigations.

They did some tests and found he was malnourished despite his excellent diet. They were working on a theory at that time that humans with some blood groups need meat...other blood groups don't. They felt quite strongly that his blood group did.

I don't know the outcome, Tony married and moved away and we lost touch.
I do think though that whether or not humans have evolved to eat meat is rather complicated.

I think that the question is whether humans should use intensive farming methods and subject livestock to unspeakable cruelty...and that one, of course, is easy to answer.

[Starling]

I dont think we were made to eat meat. We are flexible in that we are capable of eating meat,by using weapons to kill we don't need sharp teeth,our teeth are flat,our jaws would dislocate in battle with prey & we have no claws. Using fire to cook our stomachs can avoid bacteria,our stomachs are only moderately acidic,bacteria can & does survive. To show you what kind of hunters we are,try catching an animal that doesn't want to be caught (without weapons).

Well, of course we aren't designed to be carnivores. My point is that we are designed to be omnivorous. Again, our closest relatives, which are chimps, eat smaller primates and accomplish this without the use to weaponry or claws. Also, our dentition is suggestive of an omnivorous diet--we even have incisor/canine teeth.

And Knight, I reckon that hulkbeast could probably carry a Volkswagen whether he was a vulcan or not...we aren't all born superhuman!

I know there's a lot of banter that gets around about veganism/vegetarianism and its forms, but for me, I don't think it has to be more complicated than suffering. If you can understand suffering (which I think everyone can, perhaps pyschopaths can't) then you can understand animal rights and welfare. Everything else is commentary.

[Jungle Jane]

Well, of course we aren't designed to be carnivores. Also, our dentition is suggestive of an omnivorous diet--we even have incisor/canine teeth.

I wasn't talking about carnivores though? Our incisors are flat & broad like herbivores,omnivores have sharp pointy incisors like carnivores & our canine teeth are not long,sharp & curved like omnivores & carnivores,our canines are short & blunted,similar to herbivores. Omnivores don't do much chewing,they swallow food whole whereas us & herbivores do extensive chewing. We weren't 'designed' to eat animals. Have you seen a gorillas canines? How many pigs & cows do gorillas eat? How many chimpanzees do you see lighting up the barbeque? Sorry but it's quite offensive for me reading what you said because it's not our design. I agree with freedom of choice,people can eat whatever they want,its up to each individual.

[Scarlet]

They did some tests and found he was malnourished despite his excellent diet. They were working on a theory at that time that humans with some blood groups need meat...other blood groups don't. They felt quite strongly that his blood group did.

That's really interesting. I had a friend that had similar. Was a vegetarian for many years, lived abroad for some time, a real health nut, loved to cook. His vegan dishes were delicious. After lots of tests, he was advised to start introducing meat slowly into his diet. He didn't need to eat it daily but his body required much more protein than he was getting.