Private Allotments

[GreenGuy]

Hi I've been reading with interst people's experiences and opinions about private allotments, mostly centred around how much you should pay and how big the plot is.
I've been thinking for some time now about converting some land that I own in Lancashire into a private allotment/grow your own centre that could accommodate approximately 120 40x10 meter plots. What I'm really interested in is doing it right - I'm not an experienced market gardener or allotment keeper, though I will be taking it up and growing my own hopefully alongside everyone else.
The question of money is a big one and I note that most peope who are fortunate enough to have secured a local council plot or two over the years (and it does take years as far as I can see in the vast majority or areas inclucing mine) pay very little, as little as £20 - £30 a year.
If I own land that has had to be or is having to be paid for then is figures that it's going to cost more - but what value do people place on this activity? In the past, for most, it has been a hobby with an agreeable by-product - cheap flowers and veg. But today is it driven more by economics?
What do you think would be a fair price for a 40x10 meter plot already boardered, the ground broken, supplied with a decent sized shed complete with pitched roof, guttering and water butt, free parking and a communal tea/coffee/chatting facility all in a beautiful area with lovely views and easy access to main roads?

[Pumpkin Becki]

Hi GreenGuy. Welcome to the Vine first of all, we're a nice bunch here and are glad to help where we can.

I'll tell you about the private allotments my plot is on...

I have a plot 14m x 4m, it had chestnut posts knocked in for us round the boundary, but we had to supply rabbit fencing (a necessity!) and attach/dig it in ourselves.

We also had to dig the site over ourselves. It had been sheep pasture before, and is a heavy mix of clay and chalk, so we opted for raised beds, leaving grass paths between.

We have 9 plots on our site (so it is tiny compared to yours), and we have access to one tap.

New plot holders are not allowed to have sheds/greenhouses, as the first few people went a bit mad with them and the land owner decided he didn't like it. Fair enough, and we do have access to a small brick shed near the tap where we can leave things, but to be honest we just use one of those plastic garden stores on the plot itself, which is convenient and so far nothing has been taken.

We collect water on our plot in an old wheelie bin. We took the lid off, drilled holes in it and turned it upside down and reattached it to the bin - hey presto a self collecting waterbutt that doesn't require guttering!

We don't have a place to have tea, but again, we sit on our pile of pallets on the plot itself and watch the sheep next door.

This year we paid £29 rent, which seems a bargain to me for all the pleasure I get out of being there.

[GreenGuy]

Hi Pumpkin Becki
Thanks for the welcome and info on your own allotment. I suppose what I'm trying to find out is whether or not people - like you - would be prepared to spend more money to have a larger plot on a well organized site that provided some good services. It has to be a going concern, in other words a viable business proposition. I know it doesn't sound as cosy and 'the good life' as regular allotments but do you think there's room for a more commercially minded operatoin that still provides good value and a great deal of plearsure for people?
Thanks again - GreenGuy

[jackie j]

Find out how much the rent is in your area for allotments, I pay £18 a year for a half plot, water on tap just a few feet away, carparking. I would willingly pay a bit more but not too much or else it wouldnt be worth growing your own food financially. 120 plots x £20 brings in over £2000 a year. Are you going to put a shed on each plot or just have one shed for everyone to use ? somewhere some one has already asked the same sort of question see if you can find it using the search button, you will probably find the answers to any questions you might have there.

[Pumpkin Becki]

Hi Pumpkin Becki
Thanks for the welcome and info on your own allotment. I suppose what I'm trying to find out is whether or not people - like you - would be prepared to spend more money to have a larger plot on a well organized site that provided some good services.

I think this year I would probably have happily paid upto £30 for my plot, and as I said, it is tiny compared to the size you are considering for your plots, and thats without much in the way of facilities. Having said that, I'm not sure I would pay much more per year for a standard 10 rod plot even if it had all the bells and whistles, maybe upto £40?

Its tricky, because if you look at it purely as if it were a hobby like horse riding for example, you can easily pay £20 for 1 hours lesson, £20 x 52 weeks = £1040.00. But clearly, people aren't going to look at it like that, because they are doing all the day to day work, providing their own tools, seeds etc etc. Mrs Dobby runs a balance sheet every year (have a search for her thread), where she works out her out-goings against the shop value of her produce. If you think about that, the land rent/ purchase price for your total site, and how many plots you can fit on, you should be able to work out how much rent to charge fairly.

A final point, I don't think many plot holders, existing or prospective would necessarily expect to get given a shed, it would be a bonus and would help keep the site looking uniform and smart, but it might be a setup outlay you could easily avoid without upsetting anyone.

[NOG]

Welcome to the vine...our plot has Canteen, Bar,Scocial Club,shop, toilets, parking, mains water...
£40 pa for a 10 Rod plot.

[GreenGuy]

Hi GreenGuy again, thanks all for your input, much appreciated - now I know my way around a little better I'll do as suggested and search for other people chatting about similar issues as well.

[bluemoon]

Our private site charges £22 for about 350 square metres, an equivalent council site is about £42. Neither includes the cost of a shed, but both include mains water. I'm not sure you're correct about economics only just starting to matter, yes it's always been a hobby, but I very much doubt that people would ever have spent more on rents than they could actually get in return. Have you thought about a small shop on your site? Selling compost, fertilizers, canes etc can make you a bit of profit and people might be prepared to pay slightly more than they would elsewhere, just for the convenience. As it is most allotment shops manage to undercut the big DIY superstores and supermarkets because they have smaller profit margins, but do have a good turnover so are still able to make a fair bit - especially if you let it be known that non-allotment holders can shop there too.
There are other considerations. Are you going to allow livestock? Chicken-keeping is very popular at the moment (the manager of our local feed-merchant says that the poultry side of the business has gone from almost nothing to 'massive' in just a couple of years). I personally would pay considerably more at a site which allowed poultry (especially if that included a cockerel or two) than for one which didn't. Again it's economics, a local council site allows you to keep 6 hens, no cockerels. Assuming an average of £250 for housing and another £100 for the chickens, which obviously can't reproduce without a male bird and which will need to be regularly replaced, it isn't worth keeping them, especially when you then take into account feeds, wormers, litter etc, but if you can keep a cockerel then you can raise your own birds after the initial outlay, perhaps sell off spare stock and it becomes doable. This is why I have a private plot, purely because I can raise chickens there how I want.
Clearing the plots might back-fire. We have noticed that people who move onto a cleared plot seem to give up more quickly than those who moved onto a bramble infested nightmare. The more work people put in the more value they seem to place on the final result. We have now started clearing a third of the plot so that new plot-holders can start planting and at least have some return while they sort out the rest themselves. What you want to avoid is a high turnover of plot-holders.
As for waiting lists, they can be deceptive. Yes it takes years for someone to be offered a plot, but we've found that, of those who are, a good percentage have lost interest and turn it down or have already been offered one on a different site. Then there are those who turn up, clear it in a weekend, aren't seen again for 2 months and when they return and see that all their hard work is once again covered in weeds they disappear forever. I would estimate that one in three gives up before they've ever sown a seed and many (I would even say most) of these don't pay the rent or let anyone know that they've given up. As a result the plot is empty and not paying its way for at least a year, so you'd have to collect the rents 'upfront' and not everyone is happy about that. You'd need a policy where any uncultivated plot was 'repossessed' after a certain amount of time (say 6 months) otherwise they'd get into a state which was so bad they would be difficult to re-let, but in these circumstances you'd also have to be prepared to refund all or part of the rent, otherwise potential plot-holders would be wary of paying their rent in advance, especially if it was a considerable amount.
Then there are the 'wrong-uns' the ones who pick arguments and drive everyone else away, you'd need a policy to deal with that before all your tenants left.
You might also want to think about a guaranteed length of tenancy, few people would object to your plots being money-making operations - as long as they didn't feel ripped-off - but at the same time who would want to spend a good sum of money on tools, soft-fruit canes and bushes, greenhouses and the like if there was a risk that a better money-making opportunity would arise for you and they'd be kicked off.
Sorry, I've just read this back and it sounds quite negative, but I've had both council and private plots going back more than 20 years and sat on the various allotments committees and seen the problems from the other side too and it's, sadly, not a bed of roses.

[GreenGuy]

Thanks for that Bluemoon, definately food for thought if you'll excuse the pun...maybe it woudl be simpler to farm the land myself - a large market garden to supply local retailers etc. Anyway your experience and experiences are a big help many thanks again for sharing.
GreenGuy

[Pumpkin Becki]

Then you definately need to chat to Sewer Rat, he's been doing just that for ages. He does a veg box scheme.

[bluemoon]

Then you definately need to chat to Sewer Rat, he's been doing just that for ages. He does a veg box scheme.

If I had the land that's definitely the route I'd take, the allotments plan seems too full of pit-falls and potential problems. Though one day, when I win the Euromillions (which will be a greater miracle for me than most coz I don't play it) I'm going to buy land and covenant it as allotments.

[GreenGuy]

How do I find Sewer Rat?
Ta GreeenGuy

[Pumpkin Becki]

If you go to the Quick links tab at the top of the screen (under where it says Welcome GreenGuy). Select Private Messages and it will bring up your PMs, look on the menu down the left of the screen where it says Send Private Message. Select this and it will come up with a new blank PM. If you just start typing Sewer Rat into the receipient box his name will pop up. Click on it, give your PM a title and start typing your message. He's a real regular so he'll soon pick it up.

Good luck

[wasana]

Dear sir Greenguy,

I live in Rochdale. I am looking for a large size of land for growing vegetables in the green houses or poly tunnels.I just need electricity and water supply.

I am really interested to rent your land. Please contact me back, I am looking forward to hearing from you soon.

Yours sincerely,

Wasana

[WendyC]

Dear sir Greenguy,

I live in Rochdale. I am looking for a large size of land for growing vegetables in the green houses or poly tunnels.I just need electricity and water supply.

I am really interested to rent your land. Please contact me back, I am looking forward to hearing from you soon.

Yours sincerely,

Wasana

The original poster hasn't been around since June 2009 so I doubt you'll get an answer. You could try sending a PM.



Sent from my iPad using Grow Your Own Forum