allotment rules and property

[joolzabb]

i have just been to my new lottie to dig some beds only to find the handmade greenhouse which was in the middle of it has had the roof and glass framework taken. this was corrugated plastic on top and massive double glazed sides

the guy who had my plot has died and apparently there is a relative holding on o his key to sort out the stuff on two other plots he held. he gave the nod to anther plot holder tohave the corrugated sheets from the greenhouse and he took everything.

this guy had asked me if i was keeping the greenhouseon and i had said yes two weeks ago and he said he was interested in the glass. i told him if i decided not to keep it going i would offer him first refusal on the glass but now hes gone to this relative and asked him for it.

apparently legally the plot is mine and he has trespassed but there is a greyarea over ownership ofthe stuff on the plot ie the greenhouse. i was uder the impression that everything on he plot was mine when i took it over and now this guy is saying the greenhouse is owned by the realtive so he can give it to anyone he wants.

can anyne shed any light on rules of ownership???????????

this is the 2nd allotment in three months , first one was vandalised and all glass shattered now this. is someone trying to tell me i cant have a greenhouse do you think!!

joolz x

[SarzWix]

How awful for you!! As you have said, this is a grey are of ownership, howver, no-one should be on your plot without your knowledge. I would bring this up immediately with your site rep/Committee Chairman, and at the very least, if somebody is allowed to take the greenhouse they should be made to take the whole thing, not just the bits they fancy

[bluemoon]

When you give (or are given) notice then you have a short time to remove everything which is yours. If it hasn't been removed in that time then you lose it. This obviously wasn't removed during the stated period, otherwise you wouldn't have been given the plot yet. I'd be very, very cross.

[carlseawolf]

if you have paid the rent and the previous tenant has been removed by the powers that be, then control of the allotment and every thing on it goes to you and also when you leave what's on your plot stays unless you take it off before the last day of your tenancy.
you need to check your rules on stealing and can you prove it was your's in the first place.
Our rules state if two people see someone stealing from a plot then they have there plot taken away , so see a copy of your rules.
When did this relative give permission ? was it after the date your tenacy started.
Have you got photo's of the greenhouse before it happened as this will give you photographic proof that the matterials are your's.
Did you give the permission in writing as a verbal agreement is not worth the paper it's writen on , as this will prove costly to the person who took the stuff. ( was there a witness to the conversation)
So basically when did you take over the plot ? was the permission given after that date ? was your permission in writing ? then all your have to do is prove it's yours and then it has to be theft.

[joolzabb]

hi carl,
in answer to your questions.
i took over tenancy three weeks ago and the permission was given by the relative last week.
council says after a tenant dies the tenancy ends but they can offer a relative first dibs to keep it. the relative in this case didnt want my lottie so it was free. i was offered it adn was of the understanding that everything on the plot was therefore mine to use.
i havent paid any rent yet as fees run from 1st april but the council guy says it was my lottie as soon as i said yes regardless of fees.
am torn now between carrying on and letting it pass or giving up as it was supposed to e my stress relief and so far has caused more stress than most things.
am also worried keeping it on as guy who took glass has been there over 20 yrs and so have lots of others. dot want them to gang up on me for dobbing him in to council and doing stupid things to my stuff when im not there.
council guy says he will be told off for trespass by the lottie secretary but they cant make him bring the stuff back.
am so down about it all now dont know what to do.

joolz x

[joolzabb]

oh and yes we have photographic proof it was there as took pics before we started working on it but they know who took it anyway as he admitted it but says he had permission from deceaseds relative

[carlseawolf]

that's is a tricky one , yes what you have said is right and it's clearly theft but as you say he's been there 20 years so he may have friends in high places ( including the council and he may make more trouble for you and the people you can conplain to are biast to his point of view.
there is only two choices open to you stay or leave and i think you should stay as it is your right and bite your tounge until you have you rent paid and paper work in your pocket then quite politole go and see the man and apologise for the misunderstanding at the start and call a truce and explain now you offical own the plot you will let him know yourself if you have anything to give away.
sorry if i sounded a little sharp in the conversation earlier i didn't mean to be jjudgemental it's just that i type as i speak and there was to sides two your problem and as the old saying goes you might win the battle but not the war if this causes to much trouble to your neighbour. ( and he might be for the next 10 years) then you could be the one who loses out .
just grin and bear it as he might just be trying to get your plot for himself and if he see's you staying it should all calm down , but if this happens again then kick up merry hell untill you get your pound of flesh as you will have nothing to lose by then.

[Paul Wagland]

Personally, I'd talk to the guy who took the glass and explain that the deceased plotholder's relative didn't have the right to give away anything on the plot, as it had passed into your ownership. Make it clear that you understand he thought he was ok to take it, but also that you were very disappointed to lose the glazing, and would he mind giving it back?

If he's reasonable he'll say yes, if not just forget about it and start planning how to build a better greenhouse. Most importantly, remain calm and polite so nobody has any reason to hold anything against you.

[snake the squadie]

same sort of thing happend down at mine and as i understand it the rule of thumb is when you take on a plot you take on everthing with it good or bad

[Two_Sheds]

We've just had a similar thing with our house purchase. The relatives of the seller (deceased) have decided to take plants out of the garden! (I bet they don't take the horrible hydrangea)
This is totally not allowed, but there's not much we can do about it: if we kick up, they will probably take all the lightbulbs too, and wee on the carpets

[joolzabb]

thank you to all for advice.
after a restless night I have decided to forget what he did and hope that what goes around comes around for his underhandedness.
Hopefully the frame will still be there this morning and i decided to turn it into a fruit cage instead for my new strawberry plants.
if the lottie holders ignore me then thats their tough luck coz im really a nice person so their loss.lol
think there may be some jealousy about as the plot looks a prime one and didnt need much other than normal winter clearance really. hopefully they will leave me alone now but will take all my stuff home every time with me until i get a shed put up with a lock to be on safe side.

two sheds - we had someone do the same with lightbulbs, curtain tracks and plants as well. but no probably best not to upset anyone in case they wee!! lol.
thanx for making me smile.

joolz x

[Two_Sheds]

Allotment politics

I have decided to forget what he did ...
think there may be some jealousy about as the plot looks a prime one

I think you're right. Old men with too much time on their hands can make a great deal of trouble - the ones on our site are worse than old women for gossip and stirring things up. Just be polite, smile, and get on with your own thing.

(maybe you could nick a piece of glass back one night tho, just for devilment

[Gauckwin]

Hi joolzabb, grow the biggest bestest strawbs ever and they will definitely want to know you then. Softly, softly catch a monkey.

[pigletwillie]

We have had several occasions of plots being taken over by new tenants that have had good sheds etc on site. Generally we try to get the old and new tenant to agree a fee for any fixtures like sheds etc before hand over to prevent arguments after.

On one occasion we have had a death and before letting the plot, we on the committee removed the contents of his shed and dismantled the shed, putting the whiole lot in our site compound for safe keeping.

Several months later we had a solicitors letter stating that the shed and contents had been willed to the old boys grandson. Having spoken to the solicitor, possesions such as tools and sheds (inc greenhouses) are still the property of the deceaseds estate, and can be disposed of by the beneficiary or exector as they see fit. They do not become the new tenants property as a matter of course.

[Pumpkin Becki]

I would suggest taking dated photos of every area of your plot as it is now (digital cameras often have this facility). That way, if anything else goes missing in the future, you will have proof that it was on your allotment on that given date.

It is a shame to fall out with neighbours - we found our new neighbours labrador chewing our rabbit fencing and running amok in our onion bed! I was livid, but remained calm, and firmly removed the dog from our plot and handed him back to his owner, who apologised and tied him up out of the way. 'Speak softly and carry a Beagle' as they say in the Peanuts cartoon strip!!