New Lottie compost and no dig query

[Rose willow]

Sorry for all the questions. I am on enforced babysitting duty today so not doing much apart from you tube.

I have read read a few posts about no dig and decided I will give it a go. Everyone mentions Charles Dowding so went over and looked at how it’s done but I need some initial advice

my new Lottie is going to be strummed but it’s been vacant for a while so weed city but not looked close as to what as I don’t actually have the key yet to check. So my understanding is that I can decide on an area but cardboard down , cover with compost and then plant? Is this right.? So my other query is compost. Looking at Charles’ vids he has loads of lovely compost but as a new plot I have none and realistically probably won’t have any this year. So I will have to buy some which can become pricey if I need a fair few inches on each square meter. I know my local tip has soil conditioner but not sure how much it may be. I am lucky enough to know someone who can get me a couple of pallet collars so my thoughts initially were to put some cardboard down in these pallets put soil on top then plant in spring.

As as for the rest of the Lottie there is a huge tarp I was going to spread over the worst bits. But then read instead of plastic tarp I should aim to put cardboard over most of it.

i am just a bit confused as to what people do right at the start when no compost is available?

[Snadger]

It also depends how much cardboard you can get a hold of? The cardboard is only there as a weed inhibitor. Lots of people have the same dilemma and I personally just plant through the cardboard if I have no compost. Once the grass starts growing I cover what I can with grass cuttings.
Your idea of starting small with a couple of collars sounds a good one.

[burnie]

I might be tempted to remove things with roots like any brambles or nettles in a small area first, then place the cardboard/collars, then cover the rest with what you have and bit by bit use cardboard. I have used soil on top of cardboard mixed with council waste soil conditioner in the past. I would also get a compost bin going with the strimmed stuff if they leave it behind.

[Rose willow]

Thanks for advice. They did say they would leave strimmings and I intend to make a biy pallet compost bin . I also have asked son who has a rabbit to save his hutch clearing to incorporate that as well. Am thinking of all sorts here. My mind is whizzing😄

[ameno]

Realistically, if you have any perennial weeds, like horsetail, bindweed, nettles, brambles, dandelions, dock, ground elder, etc. you should do as much as you can to dig out all of the roots you can find before going no dig. A covering of cardboard and compost will not stop any of these, so they need removing instead.

Personally, I've never bothered with no dig, for two reasons.
One is my plot has lots of bindweed and horsetail, and they multiply at an alarming rate, so need digging out yearly (it's impossible to eradicate them completely as the roots go too deep).
The second reason is that I can't get hold of anywhere near enough free manure or compost to mulch all the beds every single year, and I'm damned if I'm paying for that much compost.

[peanut]

I'm a no digger. I outlined my beds, put cardboard down, then garden compost, then I used shop bought bags of compost and manure (in the beds I needed it) to give myself about 6 inches of compost. I nipped out any weeds as soon as they poked through, but they were few and far between, much less than in the dug beds.
Be brave and go for it. It really does work. The only "weed" I would dig out first is a a bramble. everything else weakens and gives up over time. Charles Dowding really knows what he is talking about.

[Nicos]

Others may not agree but I’ve heard of too many problems using council compost. People have put in lawn clippings which have been treated with weed n feed whilst the weed bit is still active... Sort of put me off not knowing what people have accidentally mixed in there...

[Nicos]

Oh...and cow manure has less weed seeds in it as they digest their food better than horses...

[Nicos]

Can you still get used brewing hops in the uk?
I used those on my heavy clay soil and it was amazing.
Not quite the same idea as you are planning but it’s just another thought...

[ameno]

Can you still get used brewing hops in the uk?
I used those on my heavy clay soil and it was amazing.
Not quite the same idea as you are planning but it’s just another thought...

You can, but probably not right now.
I got some from a local brewery last January, but hasn't been able to get any more since (I contacted them after the first lockdown, and they said they had temporarily halted brewing due to lack of demand, what with the pubs being closed).

[Rose willow]

I don’t think I will get the soil. Conditioner after all. A friend told me as you did that it has all sorts in that may have been contaminated by oil or chemicals or whatever and you wouldn’t know.

and thanks for mentioning brewing hops. There is a micro brewery a couple of miles from me so when Covid lifts I will contact them and ask. Cheers

[nick the grief]

I don’t think I will get the soil. Conditioner after all. A friend told me as you did that it has all sorts in that may have been contaminated by oil or chemicals or whatever and you wouldn’t know...

it depends where you get it from Rose. if you go for the cheapest then maybe but if you buy from a reputable company I would'nt have thought so as they would be liable for all sorts of legal action.

Spent mushroom compost is another alternative. or just see if you can get a load of well rotted manure and put that down. I intend to go for No dig on my allotment but I think that I will dig it over to remove all the old brambles and other stuff just to clear the ground first.

[bikermike]

No dig is quite simple in concept, you don't (uneccessarily) disturb the soil. Digging to "improve" the soil is not done.

Charles Dowding's methodology is to build beds with a cardboard layer for weed suppression and then compost on top.

the card works by blocking the light (and is biodegradable so you don't need to worry about retrieving it).

The compost forms the *initial* growing layer, the plants do what plants do and stick roots where they want. Unlike the weeds underneath that are weakened by lack of sunlight, the roots going down are stronger and go through the card when they grow that big (and as the card softens over time).

I had an existing plot that I shifted to no-dig, mainly by not digging and covering with compost as I went. I also built some textbook Charles Dowding beds. I have much better yields from beds that have been deep-composted.

i also have marestail and drawn the equal and opposite conclusion - weeds come out much more easily - even the dreaded docks.

In your position, I would start small and do a couple of "proper" no- dig beds, card and 6" compost on top. You will get best yields from them. Dig out all the docks/marestail you can before starting (no dig doesn't mean "throw your spade away").

I'd put those in the best bit of your plot (sunniest/least flooded/least weedy etc), as you'll get best yield.

for the rest, it's a question of what you want to do. The more you can cover, the quicker the weeds will be suppressed. If you cover with plastic, I like to cover my plastic with a layer of woodchip- it looks nicer, stops UV degredation, and weights it down evenly. Also, you can the scrape the woodchip into the compost heap as you uncover.

build a compost heap - you can never have too much compost - all raw veg kitchen peelings, eggshells, used tealeaves (try to avoid putting the actual teabag material in), coffee grounds can go in. The strimmings should go in too. Any garden waste can go in etc.

soil improver - i have used it lots and never had a problem. Yes it might have issues, but it's rare. Any manure (inc mushroom compost that is made from made from manure) has a risk of aminopyralid contamination. I test by putting some in pots with Bean seeds, and check they grow happily.

if you don't have enough compost to cover all beds then I'd make beds and don't no-dig them, and convert if you get on with no-dig. What I did was to cut narrow beds (about 2 spades-width) in the turf in the middle of where the beds would be, and then grew potatoes in the first year, and then dug out the remaining turf and built no-dig beds over the back end of the year after the potatoes were lifted.

[Compostman2]

I am a Charles Dowding No Dig fan and can say his way works for me.

If compost is in short supply, as mine was at the beginning, just start small, look out for deals on compost usually at the end of the season know a fellow plot holders was getting bags for 50p one year.

I am fortunate there is was free hose manure on side of the road, consider making your own, using the hot compost method is the quickest way.

Note once you have you beds the second year does not need so much compost 1 inch should cover it.

[Snoop Puss]

Can I ask about strimmed weed and grass material. If the idea is that you put cardboard down on top of weeds that eventually rot and die, is there any reason why you shouldn't put strimmed grass and weeds (no roots that might re-root) under the cardboard? If it's OK, should it be left to dry a bit first or it makes no odds.

I've got rather a lot of such material, plus nowhere near enough browns to make compost.