Composting.

[Nicos]

As most of you know , my daughter lives on a farm.
They ‘inherited’ an enormous pile of cow manure and straw in their barn most of it several years old, but not well composted.
They tractored it onto one of their fields creating about 8 rows rows about 50 ft long, 8 ft wide and about a metre high

The hope is that it will continue to rot down over time with other things being layered onto it and it being disturbed/ turned with planting and cropping.
Last year they decided to cover the whole area in spuds - no dig method.
They did get a very decent crop, but what I’m saying is that it had so many air pockets in it that quite a lot of the spuds along the edges of rows had a lot of green on them
Air pockets are definitely something to be aware of.

And yes, *( Mod hat on here….) we all do things differently, sometimes they work better for us, but it’s always good to have other ideas ….so keep things positive please peeps.

[Iris_Germany]

Hey, room for lots of views on the vine, I'm interested in them all. Your hill beds sound really unusual Iris, I've never heard of that approach. I particularly like the idea of planting directly into it. I do think it would need more room than I could give though.

We just have a hotbin, with varying levels of success. Stinks a bit (which i know it shouldn't), we had to move it down the garden. I do get some decent mulch out of it, but as yet nothing finer that I could use for potting plants, for example. It's a work in progress...

Thanks for your kind message.
Next time when I am in my garden, I take a picture how the big one looks like. I had such a lot of branches and big materials that this one is the highest and broadest I ever had. If I wanted, I could let it for years, until it gets flat some day. But that is not what I want from it. Next year, when all is harvested what the bed has produced, I use the compost/soil for a new patch where I want to grow vegetables.

These so called "Hügel-Beete" are a kind of fashion in Germany since some years. They originally came from the old Chineses. There is only one difference: They put their own feces in it to turn on the rotting process. We would not do this here of course

I attach some pictures of Hügelbeete. I have nothing found in English unfortunately. Only some Germans who translated their experiences in English. There is one German fellow who brags about it that it is his own idea, which is not right. And I find his beds too steep. Oh well, you have these types of adventurers all over the world. Thanks god not only in Germany!
Here they speak German but it's not necessary to understand. One can see what they are doing to build a "Hügelbeet".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV58ISta8Kw


https://www.seminarhausuckermark.de/...beete-anlegen/

But this gives you some idea how the Hügelbeet came back from the old Chineses to be revived by german gardeners.

[ameno]

I stop here because it is getting out of hand. I should have said nothing at all in this thread, then I would not have problems now to explain why I suggested hill beds and raised beds. I would have not spent 30 min. to write the answer to Simon, and I would not get patronising comments that I do it all wrong (Ameo). I shot my mouth now, and Simon does it how he likes.

That's not what I said at all. The only part of your posts I commented on was the bit about him needing more green stuff because manure + woodchip won't make good compost, and the part about him adding turf to his compost heap. That's it.
Nothing else I wrote was in any way addressing anything you wrote.
The main subject of your post was the suggestion of using a hill bed, and at no point did I suggest that he shouldn't do that or that it was a bad idea, or anything like that. It's a perfectly good option. All I did was address two specific, small points (points largely incidental to the main subject of your post) which I feared may lead to the topic creator misunderstanding things should he choose more standard composting and not a hill bed.

[Compostman2]

“This is about if, or not, it's sensible to just simplfy my set up and just make one absolutely massive heap out of the various compost, leaf piles, manure piles and 18 month old wood chip pile I have. At a guess I think we'd be talking a 2.5 X 2.5m pile about 1m high (maybe higher). So pretty big. I mean I spend way too much time with these various materials and I wondered what would happen if I just piled it all high and left it a year, no turning. It'd surely be lovely stuff at the end right?”

Yes it would Simon.

I moved my pallet size square over to another bay, it would still be usable compost next year if I had left it as there where thousand of worms in it.

[ameno]

Ameno, interesting point about the soil and potting compost. I have read that it can be benefical, soil particularly.

Very small amounts of soil, spread even throughout the pile, can be beneficial by virtue of adding microorganisms and invertebrates which help rot the other stuff (although I find they make their own way in just fine, anyway).
Any larger amounts of soil or already-rotted compost (and by "larger" I mean any amount large enough to make a lump you can actually distinguish as soil within the heap) only slows things down, however. The reason is that soil is not a decomposable substance, and so it does nothing to feed the bacteria and fungi which inhabit the heap and rot everything else. When they hit a pocket of soil, they just grind to a halt, in just the same way as when they hit a pocket of air. It doesn't help them, and they can't even go through it very easily, so they just have to go around it. It's really little different to just adding stones or bits of plastic, or other non-biodegradable lumps of stuff to your compost heap.
Naturally, stuff can and does rot down when buried in soil, but it's a largely different set of microorganisms and invertebrates responsible for this process than the ones which would usually be found in a compost heap. They are two different ecosystems, and soil is largely not beneficial to the compost heap one. So you kind of need to choose one or the other and commit to it, rather than trying to mix the two.

[quanglewangle]

Link to Hügelbeete very useful.

I realise now that I didn't read the original post, or Iris' reply with enough attention. Sorry.

[Iris_Germany]

Link to Hügelbeete very useful.

I realise now that I didn't read the original post, or Iris' reply with enough attention. Sorry.

Thanks, quaddle waddle. Oh no, it's quanglewangle, sorry!

Here is a little video how it is done. It's not necessary to understand the two guys who build it. But there one can see how the gardeners do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV58ISta8Kw

[Iris_Germany]

That's not what I said at all. The only part of your posts I commented on was the bit about him needing more green stuff because manure + woodchip won't make good compost, and the part about him adding turf to his compost heap. That's it.
Nothing else I wrote was in any way addressing anything you wrote.
The main subject of your post was the suggestion of using a hill bed, and at no point did I suggest that he shouldn't do that or that it was a bad idea, or anything like that. It's a perfectly good option. All I did was address two specific, small points (points largely incidental to the main subject of your post) which I feared may lead to the topic creator misunderstanding things should he choose more standard composting and not a hill bed.

Sure. Sure.

[Plot70]

My soil type is brick making clay.
My hill beds are more like clay block built raised beds with vertical sides.
Last year I built one filled with couch grass roots and some tap root weeds.
I capped it with horse manure with wood chip bedding leaving a small hole in the top.
I added a big tank full of undiluted urine and plugged the hole to keep the ammonia in to pickle the weed roots.
The whole lot was later capped with topsoil and planted with squashes.
A good crop was had.
This year the top layers were used on another bed and another crop of squashes was had from the lower layer.
This year I built an even bigger one with tree branches in an extra lower layer and a further upper layer of woof chip and manure and more urine as as some weed shoots came through.
The biggest squash on this second bed was 23.6Kg.

[ameno]

Sure. Sure.

But that is exactly what I said.
I'm really not sure what more you want me to say here. I'm sorry if it seems like some sort of personal attack, but it really wasn't. It wasn't even addressed at you, after all. It was advice intended to SimpleSimon. This is his topic and his question, after all.
At this point, it feels more like I'm the one being attacked here. I mean, was your reply really necessary if all you were going to do was make a sarcastic comment? First I'm not allowed to disagree with any points someone else raised without being accused of being patronising or of somehow denying everything they said (when all I was questioning was one or two small things), and now I'm also not allowed to try and explain myself without having my own explanation just dismissed out of hand.

[Nicos]

Its all good here now peeps - reading back it really looks like a few misunderstandings.
Its actually a very interesting thread
(Do be aware ameno that English is Iris's second or third language... and that your advice, as always, is very interesting/ informative)

[Purple Primrose]

Since joining the vine a year or so back, I've found that one of the nice things about it is that posters often have different ideas on the best way of doing things but the site's atmosphere has been consistently pleasant and supportive.

We all live in different places, with different climates and different soils, so what works well in one garden might not work as well in another. I've found learning about how other people do things and trying out their methods has been really interesting. If something doesn't work well for me (with my particular climate and soil) it doesn't mean it wasn't a good idea as it obviously works well for someone else in their particular microclimate.

Over the years, I've tried out various composting methods:

• I used to have two compost areas made from old pallets and just chucked everything on (including guinea pig bedding). It took years to rot down but was a really good consistency when it was finally ready. I think it was so slow because it had too much sawdust in it and not enough green stuff.
• My Dalek filled with vegetable peelings, compost activator, seaweed, small twigs, bits of paper etc rots down within a few months. This is great but it doesn't have a big enough capacity for my needs.
• The giant heap (over 6ft tall) of the turf removed from a 20 metre by 20 metre area was just left to itself and it has taken about a year to decompose nicely. I've just recently been adding it back onto to the vegetable beds. The bits from the outside of the heap (that didn't decompose) will form the middle of the next heap. After the next big storm, I'll be going down to the beach to fill some old compost bags with the washed-up seaweed. Some of it will be used to cover the new heap and some will be chopped and dug straight into the vegetable beds.
• A work colleague of mine is a fantastic gardener who wins a lot of the prizes at our local horticultural show. He was telling me recently that, since he has a really bad back, he tries to avoid digging and doesn't bother with composting. He says he just lifts his veg, takes what he wants to the kitchen and leaves the rest of the plant where it grew. It dies off and decomposes naturally. I'm going to try that next year and see what happens. It'll certainly save me a lot of time and effort.

[Iris_Germany]

That's not what I said at all. The only part of your posts I commented on was the bit about him needing more green stuff because manure + woodchip won't make good compost, and the part about him adding turf to his compost heap. That's it.
Nothing else I wrote was in any way addressing anything you wrote.
The main subject of your post was the suggestion of using a hill bed, and at no point did I suggest that he shouldn't do that or that it was a bad idea, or anything like that. It's a perfectly good option. All I did was address two specific, small points (points largely incidental to the main subject of your post) which I feared may lead to the topic creator misunderstanding things should he choose more standard composting and not a hill bed.

You obviously want to go on with that discussion. Well, I can tell you what is bugging me. But after this I do not react anymore to any of your comments. Not here, not elsewhere.

It is not respectful to pick out my comments so you can sit down, analyse and judge what's wrong or right. I spoke of my own experiences and they are right and valuable to me. I myself do not take a narrative from another user with the intent to "refute" her/his theories or experiences. There is nothing to debunk with my way of composting. I have told that I have a bad back and I do not want to turn the compost around because it hurts me. And what do you do? You write to Simon: A compost has to be turned. Everything else is not acceptable. Period. Thanks a heap, Ameo, that my personal situation doesn't mean a thing when it concernes the perfect compost making!

What makes it worse: You did not address all your horrible foundings about my alledged composting failures to me, but let me only see what you had to say to this compost-sacrilige to Simon. You wanted only to show him (who ignores btw. my comment to him completely) by reference to my pathetic composting ways how the most wonderful and chemically correct compost has to be made. I made a great example of how it is not done in your eyes. You think I relished this?

The Hügelbeet-thread I open somewhere else now here in the forum. Apparently, there are persons who are interested in this topic.

There are ways to ignore each other, and I will make use of this. And Simon, I address him certainly not again neither.

Iris

[Iris_Germany]

My soil type is brick making clay.
My hill beds are more like clay block built raised beds with vertical sides.
Last year I built one filled with couch grass roots and some tap root weeds.
I capped it with horse manure with wood chip bedding leaving a small hole in the top.
I added a big tank full of undiluted urine and plugged the hole to keep the ammonia in to pickle the weed roots.
The whole lot was later capped with topsoil and planted with squashes.
A good crop was had.
This year the top layers were used on another bed and another crop of squashes was had from the lower layer.
This year I built an even bigger one with tree branches in an extra lower layer and a further upper layer of woof chip and manure and more urine as as some weed shoots came through.
The biggest squash on this second bed was 23.6Kg.

WOW! WOW! WOW!
This looks gigantic!
And I hear this too: Urin is a very good activator for the compost or high beds/hill beds.

(One question: Exists the word "hill bed" in English? I never found anything in English and then there you are and present the project of a huge hill bed! )

I think I will open a new thread under this topic.

How did it look when there were vegetables growing? I will make some pictures of my hill beds too. At the moment one can see nothing but in spring the garlic will come out, and then I grow pepper, carottes and tomatoes additionally on top and on the sides.

The garlic I planted beginning of October. But no sprouds came out until yet. The garlic helps to banish the families of mices who want to move in. A nice mice-mansion that would be, with the wood on the bottom. But they hate garlic, hahaha, and I love garlic of course.

Thank you so much for your report and the pics! I am happy that someone else here is a hillbed-builder!

[quanglewangle]

For what it is worth...

Language note: In US English the word hill is used for the long raised soil row drawn up over potatoes. The equivalent in British English is ridge (at least it is when speaking of potatoes, not for hills in general)