Composting.

[SimpleSimon]

I know I know, it's super simple and there is a bazillion hours of youtube videos on the subject. But I just seem to struggle. Anyways, the question really isn't about my struggles. This is about if, or not, it's sensible to just simplfy my set up and just make one absolutely massive heap out of the various compost, leaf piles, manure piles and 18 month old wood chip pile I have. At a guess I think we'd be talking a 2.5 X 2.5m pile about 1m high (maybe higher). So pretty big. I mean I spend way too much time with these various materials and I wondered what would happen if I just piled it all high and left it a year, no turning. It'd surely be lovely stuff at the end right? It would be mostly a year old manure and 18 old wood chip. But also the contents of a 1.5x1.5m compost bin thats from this year. plus quite a bit of year old leaf mold.

[Iris_Germany]

Hi,

What I do with my compost pile maybe is not the same because I do not want to have manure in my garden, so it takes a little longer to rot. But of course the manure certainly will be a good starter for all the micro-organismns who transform your compost heap into great humus soil.

I have no picture here but maybe I take one when I'll be there next time. My patch is appr. 1 km from my home, unfortunately. I throw everything in raised beds or form compost hills. This year, I had a lot of branches and rough stuff. They all now build the ground of my hills. My neighbors wisper behind my back, I know that. But what do I care? Next automn, when my compost hills have been the host of wonderful, fine looking and tasting vegetables, they don't laugh anymore. Hahaha!

My neighbors make all a big fuzz with their compost. They turn the masses regularily, so that the compost which is beneeth comes to the top. And they cut everything into tiny bits before they put it on their compost. I do not do that. I have enough problems with my back, therefore I dig and turn and flip the earth around only when it is really necessary: When I want to plant or sew something or it looks really too bad. But not for compost turning.

My high raised beds are EU-palletts and full with green crap my garden produces. Of course nothing infected or too many leaves etc. It's all a good mixture of everything. Old soil from my greenhouse, grass, cut flowers ... Everything. The big buggers on the ground, the lighter and finer ones on the top. And then 10 cm fat humus on top. Voilà!

Of course, some gardeners will cry out now that this is not how it is done ... Well, I do it like this, without turning and sieving and it works for me. I made the hills mid of September. Next year in September there will be fine compost all the way down to the branches on the ground (Which will be crumbly but not fully rotten. I throw them in my next raised bed and there it can fully rot until everything has got "digested".) I do not mind if the humus has a bit of a rougher structure.

We call this here "Hügelbeet" Hill bed. I don't know the expression in English, but this is how it is done (picture attached). Some critics say that this is all b.-**** (pardon my french). Hill beds get dry on the top and one has to make a sort of drainage for the plants who grow there. I am no super great fan of hill beds, but for my needs it is perfect! I had one made last year, where the tomatoes grew like hell on that bed. And the chili and garlic too.

So, this is how I do it with the compost.

(By manure I meant cow manure etc. Not green material)

[Iris_Germany]

I know I know, it's super simple and there is a bazillion hours of youtube videos on the subject. But I just seem to struggle. Anyways, the question really isn't about my struggles. This is about if, or not, it's sensible to just simplfy my set up and just make one absolutely massive heap out of the various compost, leaf piles, manure piles and 18 month old wood chip pile I have. At a guess I think we'd be talking a 2.5 X 2.5m pile about 1m high (maybe higher). So pretty big. I mean I spend way too much time with these various materials and I wondered what would happen if I just piled it all high and left it a year, no turning. It'd surely be lovely stuff at the end right? It would be mostly a year old manure and 18 old wood chip. But also the contents of a 1.5x1.5m compost bin thats from this year. plus quite a bit of year old leaf mold.

Sorry, in my first answer I thought "manure" ment animal dung. If it is green material, my answer would have been different.

And concerning your question: I have my garden since 9 years and do it this way. The things rot without ever turning them over. In one year, every green material is compost. When the earthworms get the message that there are good things to eat in your compost, they do all the work.

The chipped wood rather not. I would leave it on the buttom of the pile for circulation. It takes certainly longer than a year to disolve.

[ameno]

A pile that big needs turning. Even if left for a year, it probably won't be fully rotted in that time if you plan to not turn it. If you do turn it, it could be done in 6-8 months.

Also, the key to fast composting in general is to cut everything as small as you possibly can, firm everything down well, keep it moist, and turn regularly (at least every 2 months in the warmer months). I get three loads a year from my home compost, and two from my allotment this way. I could probably get more if I actually had more materials to fill them with.

From what I've seen, the first three of those things are what most people who have slow compost bins fall down on. They put big bits of plant matter in there, which creates lots of large air gaps, which are bad for composting (you want lots and lots of tiny air gaps. Large ones are never good). The large air gaps also cause the contents to dry out quickly, and they never bother to add water.
That, and people adding soil. I've seen many compost bins with large quantities of soil in them, and their owners wonder why they don't rot down very quickly. As little soil as possible should go in the compost. Always shake roots off well before putting them on the compost, and never try to compost turf.
The contents of pots should never be emptied on the compost bin, either. Potting compost is almost as bad as soil for slowing things down. Pull the plants out and compost them, then tip the used compost straight onto you beds some other patch of soil, not into the compost bin.

Do you have meadow for your compost too?

I think this would be good. Only manure and wood and some leaves is not ideal, I think. If you have for example a patch in your garden where you want to plant something and there is meadow, you can take the soil (a spade deep) and throw it the other way around on your compost pile. The grass has to bee on the underside.

I reckon, you need really more green stuff. Plants, leaves, grass etc. etc. The quantity-proportions do not fit so good with the wood chip and the manure.

That's what I think. Maybe someone else thinks differently about it. I am not sure. So: It's just a guess :-)

Fresh manure is a "green" material, in that it is high in nitrogen and low in carbon. Fresh manure and partially rotted wood chips ought to make good compost quite quickly.
Year-old manure, however, is less than ideal, as most of the excess nitrogen will already have dissipated.

Also, you should always try you best not to put soil on the compost heap. Anything more than tiny quantities of it will always slow the composting process right down.

[Iris_Germany]

A pile that big needs turning. Even if left for a year, it probably won't be fully rotted in that time if you plan to not turn it. If you do turn it, it could be done in 6-8 months.

Also, the key to fast composting in general is to cut everything as small as you possibly can, firm everything down well, keep it moist, and turn regularly (at least every 2 months in the warmer months). I get three loads a year from my home compost, and two from my allotment this way. I could probably get more if I actually had more materials to fill them with.

From what I've seen, the first three of those things are what most people who have slow compost bins fall down on. They put big bits of plant matter in there, which creates lots of large air gaps, which are bad for composting (you want lots and lots of tiny air gaps. Large ones are never good). The large air gaps also cause the contents to dry out quickly, and they never bother to add water.
That, and people adding soil. I've seen many compost bins with large quantities of soil in them, and their owners wonder why they don't rot down very quickly. As little soil as possible should go in the compost. Always shake roots off well before putting them on the compost, and never try to compost turf.
The contents of pots should never be emptied on the compost bin, either. Potting compost is almost as bad as soil for slowing things down. Pull the plants out and compost them, then tip the used compost straight onto you beds some other patch of soil, not into the compost bin.

Fresh manure is a "green" material, in that it is high in nitrogen and low in carbon. Fresh manure and partially rotted wood chips ought to make good compost quite quickly.
Year-old manure, however, is less than ideal, as most of the excess nitrogen will already have dissipated.

Also, you should always try you best not to put soil on the compost heap. Anything more than tiny quantities of it will always slow the composting process right down.

Ameno,

It's not me who asked for advice concerning a compost heap.

As far as I could see, a super fast composting is not required in this case.

And concerning myself: I am very happy with how I do it. It serves me very well.

[ameno]

Ameno,

It's not me who asked for advice concerning a compost heap.

As far as I could see, a super fast composting is not required in this case.

And concerning myself: I am very happy with how I do it. It serves me very well.

I wasn't giving you advice. That was all directed at the topic creator. I quoted you simply to address (or rather, to give a rebuttal to) some of what you had said.

[quanglewangle]

What follows is not advice, just my thoughts on the topic.

One benefit of fast, hot, composting is (at least partial) sterilization and denaturing of weed roots, seeds and spores. So I add a little high nitrogen fertilizer, some previous compost to inoculate it, turn it frequently until it gets going, and then hardly at all.

My measure of success is when I can draw out the fork that I leave stuck in the bin and the tines are almost too hot to grasp.

[SimpleSimon]

Ameno, interesting point about the soil and potting compost. I have read that it can be benefical, soil particularly. I think you raise a good point about large airgaps. I am guilty of not shredding things or even chopping them up very much. It's a huge amount of work this time of year chopping everything. But it did lead to my last pile drying out due to huge air gaps. I have took the roof off my latest one so I can stand on top of the pile and squash it down. And also let a bit of rain in if it starts to seem a bit dry. Fingers crossed. It's mostly covered but once in a while I will leave the cover off and let some rain in.

I'd love a petrol shredder but they are just so expensive for a decent one.

[quanglewangle]

Air gaps: turning will at least stop air gaps being persistent.

Soil: a small amount will inoculate the heap with beneficial micro-organisms.

Shredding: spread out material to be shredded on a flat, hard, surface and run a rotary mower over it. Goggles needed.

[Iris_Germany]

I wasn't giving you advice. That was all directed at the topic creator. I quoted you simply to address (or rather, to give a rebuttal to) some of what you had said.

This is leading nowhere..

I spoke about raised beds and hill beds.
You speak about the perfect composting with the best compost result ever.

When you have green materials who fit not perfectly in your high quality compost, what will you do with it? Throw it over the fence to your neighbor?

My way of getting rid of these are putting them all in high raised beds and hill beds. After a year, they are not the finest, darkest and richest compost of all times, but it is a fine soil which I use for new beds. And in the meantime I grow vegetables on top. You cannot do this with your compost pile which you have to turn over and where only the best ingredients are allowed.

If Simon has a huge pile of materials he could build a hill bed, if he wants. And plant vegetable on top. A circulation of air within the beds is btw. especially required on the buttom.

My message to Simon was only for inspiration, no advice. When someone does not want to turn the compost over, he can do it like this.

The question is: What is the goal?

- Making the best compost ever

or

- Getting rid of green material what lies around and making something good of it

My goal is the second.

[quanglewangle]

- Making the best compost ever

or

- Getting rid of green material what lies around and making something good of it

These goals are not mutually exclusive.

We get rid of green materials, including a lot of grass cuttings, by composting. The compost may not be the best ever, but is somewhere between adequate and quite good.

[Jungle Jane]

I quoted you simply to address (or rather, to give a rebuttal to) some of what you had said.

Ameno why do you criticise what we say as if you’re the only one here who knows what they’re talking about? I’ve started ignoring the criticisms you make,I think that’s the best way. We are all here to help people,a lot of gardeners do things differently & still get great results in the end,it’s better to hear from many people than just one!

[Iris_Germany]

These goals are not mutually exclusive.

We get rid of green materials, including a lot of grass cuttings, by composting. The compost may not be the best ever, but is somewhere between adequate and quite good.

Have I said something else? I don't think so. Simon has a huge pile of wood chips and other stuff. He wanted to know if he has to turn this pile the whole time and I said, if he does it like I do, he hasn't. That's all. I know that a compost is made of green material, grass cuttings and so one. But this was not the problem Simon had.

I stop here because it is getting out of hand. I should have said nothing at all in this thread, then I would not have problems now to explain why I suggested hill beds and raised beds. I would have not spent 30 min. to write the answer to Simon, and I would not get patronising comments that I do it all wrong (Ameo). I shot my mouth now, and Simon does it how he likes.

[Iris_Germany]

Ameno why do you criticise what we say as if you’re the only one here who knows what they’re talking about? I’ve started ignoring the criticisms you make,I think that’s the best way. We are all here to help people,a lot of gardeners do things differently & still get great results in the end,it’s better to hear from many people than just one!

Thanks, Jungle Jane, I was asking myself if I am an idiot or what ...

[Babru]

Hey, room for lots of views on the vine, I'm interested in them all. Your hill beds sound really unusual Iris, I've never heard of that approach. I particularly like the idea of planting directly into it. I do think it would need more room than I could give though.

We just have a hotbin, with varying levels of success. Stinks a bit (which i know it shouldn't), we had to move it down the garden. I do get some decent mulch out of it, but as yet nothing finer that I could use for potting plants, for example. It's a work in progress...