Human Compost

[Peter]

Against using "our own" is the risks of spreading parasites, such as worms.
A sewage works will ferment what we produce and should destroy harmful stuff, the resulting residue being largely inert.

However going by the minging Thames Water plant my daily train goes past and the identical smell from the large grey piles in local farmers fields, which are paper recycling waste combined with sewage works sludge, the smell stays with the sludge.

Just remember back in the good old days before the victorians invented municipal drains and sewage works our population was heavily parasitised.

How did that line in Black Adder II go when he was selling his house?

"Edmund: Well, what we're talking about in, erm, privy terms is the very latest in front-wall, fresh-air orifices, combined with a wide-capacity gutter installation below.
Mrs: You mean you crap out of the window.
Edmund: Yes!"

Returning to modern reality, saw a horrific documentary / extended news type thing last year on a part of Kenya where the dust contained worm eggs, health workers dosed all the local kids with a parasite-icide and gave them each a plastic seive and jug to take home.
Next day or so the kids came back each with a jugful of dark red worms, literally a handful per kid, up to "fat pencil" size.
Interviewed health worker said it was a lost battle because every kid was reinfected within a day and that within about a month each would contain the same number of worms again, with worm eggs passing out in the kids poo, which ended up in the ground dust blowing round where the kids lived..........

[sewer rat]

Dick Strawbridge from How Green Are You built a compost loo and they intended to use it on their allotment. They were however going to compost it for at least two years. Presumably after that length of time it would not be recognisable as human poo.

Ian

This stuff is between three and four years old and apparently resembles leaf mould in appearance and is totally dry.

[snohare]

Heavy metal build up in the soil, not to mention some pharmaceutical products, is a theoretical possibility, but I doubt if it would be worth worrying about on this scale. (Part of the problem with meat eaters is that their faeces concentrates much larger quantities of pollutatants as they are further up the food chain.)
Parasites are also not likely to be a problem, assuming that there is no chance of constant re-infection from the original toilets due to poor hygiene, water spillage onto the ground in front, vermin spreading eggs and larvae to children etc, as you might expect in a third world country.
Protozoans would similarly need a rapid chance to re-infect, and the chance would hopefully be miniscule.
Bacteria...might be a different thing altogether. There are soil bacteria like MAP in the tuberculosis family that may or may not be implicated in the cause of Johne's Disease in cattle, Crohn's Disease in humans, TB in badgers and cattle...nobody really knows, and they are devilishly hard to work with in the laboratory so little research is done. But, as Crohn's Disease is very much on the increase in non-allotment humans anyway, I'd be inclined to think there is little additional risk from soil. Generally, soil bacteria are beneficial in humans - some help produce endorphins.
Light, dry, crumbly, no smell, several years old...divide up that time by 20 minutes, that is how many generations of gradually evolving bacteria have had a go at the manure. Basically, it is normal soil. I'd jump at the chance.
Mark you, I already have Crohn's, so nothing to lose !

[NOG]

I can't understand why we will happily chuck cow, horse and chicken poop on our veggies, but not our own?

It like saying why do we cook with Veg oil and not Derv as they will both run my rover.

They are totally diferant. Humans, Dogs, Cat produce Sacts. House and Cows produce Manure. The deferance is to do with what goes in and how it is digested. Horses and cows mainly eat grasses so what comes out is mostly grass. Scats have lots of live nasties in them Worms, parasites, Virus, Bacteria, Typhoid, Hep A,

I wouldn't put it on my plot.

[snohare]

The virulence (ability to cause disease) of any pathogen (disease causing organism) is determined by how well it survives under different conditions. Yes, you get all the above organisms in human excrement. And the AIDS virus, and E.Coli (about 2000 varieties) and many more. But they don't stay alive outside of very specific conditions. That's why they are not endemic (common everywhere) - Hepatitis needs blood to live and reproduce in, as does HIV, viruses will die the instant ultraviolet (ie hot sunlight) hits them, Typhoid....well, when was the last case in your neck of the woods ? E.Coli - out of all the varieties, there's one (0157:h7) that lives in grass grazed by sheep and continually re-infects the ground, via droppings that pass it on humans when handled.
But yes, NOG is right, the worms and the parasites/protozoans are things to watch out for, and that is all about hygiene. Back in the middle ages they were endemic. Interrupt their life cycle and they are clobbered; that's why they are not commonplace any more.[B]
If I was you, I'd be worrying more about getting Lyme's Disease from ticks. Higher risk, worse hazard. Bad bad scenario if you get that !

[Plot17B]

Hi, I've got my microbiology hat on now...

If it's been composted properly, all the bacteria, parasites and virus particles will have been broken down and made non-viable. End of story. This could be a (relatively) short-term accelerated fermentation event or a more traditional long term breakdown that you'd find in a cesspit type environment.

If that process is done correctly, then the end product is a mash of nutrients with all the key NPK ingredients for plant growth. It's also mixed with other organic material like paper and sawdust and thus has an overall balanced content.

It's been used for centuaries as agricultural fertiliser and is being used now. BUT both raw and less-processed human waste is used worldwide and that may propogate the pathogens simply because the breakdown process is not as controlled/rigorous as here.

So some foods you've bought down the local supermarket WILL have been grown with this stuff on it already. Only difference was that on those occasions, your ignorance of the fact was bliss! We use it in the UK regularly, after it's been broken down correctly. Do you think that Defra and all the other food safety bodies and insurance/Health & Safety peeps would let it happen were it not safe?

If it's a freebie and is 3-4 years old as you say, I wouldn't hesitate to put it on a section of the plot and do a small root veg trial between i) cow/horse, ii) human and iii) compost heap out of pure experimental interest to see which is better/worse.

It's safe. I promise. Just get over the mental weirdess of knowing our processed poo is on the plot.

[Plot17B]

...actually, just to add to snohare's post re: Typhoid.

There is a famous epidemiological case of a Typhoid carrier in London. The infectious particles were being shed through her waste products and detected by the microbiological sampling which is a constant in this country on water sources and rivers and sea etc etc.
The microbiologists slowly and surely worked backwards up the river, up the main victorian sewers, down the side alley drains and eventually got to the actual street where the particles were being shed. They then worked house by house to identify who the infected person was.
And for years after, they did silent monitoring on her to see if it ever got worse or better. She was a carrier with no expressed symptoms of typhoid. And she probably never knew it either. But the blokes in white coats did and made sure nothing bad ever came of it.
P17B

[burnie]

You've got a weird job if you know all that,ugh(dare say "it's a dirty job and some ones got to do it" springs to mind)

[mrdinkle]

This is a very interesting thread!

I have not convinced my wife to allow sacks of horse plops in the car when she is in it so I guess my garden will be doing without this stuff!

[sewer rat]

Stil no word - maybe it's all gone - would be nice to get a call to let me know !

[Plot17B]

Stil no word - maybe it's all gone - would be nice to get a call to let me know !

So you going to give it a whirl then by the sounds of it???? Can you chase them or is that being a bit cheeky?

[snohare]

How ironic. An allotments secretary who can't get people to give him s***.
Most folk reckon that they are given way too much...

[sewer rat]

How ironic. An allotments secretary who can't get people to give him s***.
Most folk reckon that they are given way too much...

Lol Snohare, except I'm secretary of a gardening club, not an allotment society - and I an get as much sh*t as I want provided I want pig slurry, FYM or hen-pen. Just fancied trying this in the tunnel.

[snohare]

I just have to ask though - which came first, the nickname or the manure(s) ?

[sewer rat]

I just have to ask though - which came first, the nickname or the manure(s) ?

The nickname - cause when I joined the Vine way way way back when there were a lot less of us than now, I worked for a local agricultural and drainage contractor as a pipelayer, putting in field drains, septic tanks, sewers etc. I suppose I could ask for it to be changed as I now grow veg for a living but don't really see the point ! Everyone knows me now.