Newbie - Advice Needed!

[Ibroxblue]

Hi all,

I have just acquired a plot for the first time that needs a lot of work doing to it and wondered if anyone can give me some advice on where to start.

I was part of a clearing party last weekend that moved most of the rubbish, although to my annoyance and half hearted protest it was buried four feet down at the back end of my plot with the use of a mini jcb (mixture of glass, plastic, metal, stones/bricks and some small pieces of asbestos) - I have been told this is done regularly but is this safe to do when I intend to grow on the plot? the advice I have been given so far is to put my compost bins and shed over the area where the rubbish was buried.

Currently the majority of the area is covered in grass and the soil is clay. Would the first job be to turn this over and get rid of any weeds I see, or do I need to try to remove the grass as well? I have been told not to rotovate this until I have removed the weeds as this will cause problems in the future.

Any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated.

[Capsid]

I'd remove the grass and if it's couch grass, burn it. If not then pile the turfs upside down and use as a nice loam in a year's time. Rotovating will chop the perennial weeds up (particularly couch grass and mare's tail) and spread them further.

It will be a lot of work, but the investment now will save you problems in the long run.

[HeyWayne]

Start at the beginning, and move on from there. The rest will fall into place.

[Ibroxblue]

I'd remove the grass and if it's couch grass, burn it. If not then pile the turfs upside down and use as a nice loam in a year's time. Rotovating will chop the perennial weeds up (particularly couch grass and mare's tail) and spread them further.

It will be a lot of work, but the investment now will save you problems in the long run.

Capsid,

Thanks for your help - if I wish to plant this year would it be better to remove the layer of grass and weeds and burn this anyway?

Thanks in advance.

[Capsid]

I'd say yes. You won't be able to grow much through grass. Don't be concerned that you haven't been able to get the whole plot done this year, just clear what you can and plant in that. The rest you can do as you go along, laying carpet and cardboard over the grass for a few months will help to kill it off too.

What do you plan to grow?

[Tori]

I saw a pic somewhere on the web where a lady had dug up the grass in little slabs and used it as bricks to make a low wall all round her plot - it looked lovely! And gave her somewhere to sit, drink tea and admire the work.

[Creemteez]

I saw a pic somewhere on the web where a lady had dug up the grass in little slabs and used it as bricks to make a low wall all round her plot - it looked lovely! And gave her somewhere to sit, drink tea and admire the work.

My nieghbour has just done that with her new veggie patch. It makes perfact sense as she will gradually fill up the centre and it'll all be retained by the loamy wall.

[Peter]

Oh dear, retaining walls of Couch Grass turf. Those invasive roots will never be got rid of from such a secure base.

There are only three solutions, weedkiller once it starts growing or patient hard work with a fork getting out every root, or plant through a weed proof membrane. Personally, weedkiller, then burn, wait for regrowth (it will happen) repeat as needed.

As for the buried rubbish, everything you listed is inert, it wont react or leach chemicals as say half empty paint or oil containers could. Yes any steel will rust, but at 4' down it won't affect anything you grow each year and long term stuff like soft fruit or trees might be glad of some trace iron.

Amazingly burial is now the recommended way to dispose of the asbestos we most commonly find, corrugated concrete/asbestos mix boards.

[Ibroxblue]

Oh dear, retaining walls of Couch Grass turf. Those invasive roots will never be got rid of from such a secure base.

There are only three solutions, weedkiller once it starts growing or patient hard work with a fork getting out every root, or plant through a weed proof membrane. Personally, weedkiller, then burn, wait for regrowth (it will happen) repeat as needed.

As for the buried rubbish, everything you listed is inert, it wont react or leach chemicals as say half empty paint or oil containers could. Yes any steel will rust, but at 4' down it won't affect anything you grow each year and long term stuff like soft fruit or trees might be glad of some trace iron.

Amazingly burial is now the recommended way to dispose of the asbestos we most commonly find, corrugated concrete/asbestos mix boards.

To be honest I would prefer to dig the grass up (I have been given permission to move all waste onto a different area) as I am not comfortable with weedkillers - I realise this may take some time but I would prefer to do it this way and have been told to try and remove between 4-6" off the top layer?

Once I have removed the grass as well as I can anyway - what actions can I then take to break down the clay soil. Would I need to rotovate if I was comfortable that I have removed all of the grass, and would I also need to add anything to the soil - some people have said to add sand although I think this would be far too expensive.

One last question so apologies - if I have to concentrate on one area only does anyone have some cheap recommendations on how to cover the remaining grass - capsid recommended carpet or cardboard but when I spoke to the allotment secretary she mentioned I need to use black plastic or membrane - does anyone know where I might be able to buy this cheaply?

Thanks for your help in advance.

[Capsid]

To answer your question about what to add to the soil after grass removal, the stock response is manure/compost. You can never add enough of the stuff. Clay soil is hard to dig and work, but it is fertile and therefore you will get good veg growth.

[Ibroxblue]

To answer your question about what to add to the soil after grass removal, the stock response is manure/compost. You can never add enough of the stuff. Clay soil is hard to dig and work, but it is fertile and therefore you will get good veg growth.

Thanks Capsid, would I add this after I had rotovated or before, and how long would you wait before planting after you have worked in the manure or compost?

With regards to the grass if I removed the top 4" of earth or so (I presume I would have to do this if couch grass as roots would be difficult to remove from clay) would I need to replace the top soil or could I just dig in the manure and compost in straight away (as presumably this adds nutrients to the soil).

Once again thanks for your help.

[Pumpkin Becki]

Hi Ibroxblue,

Had you considered raised beds? I'm on heavy clay/chalk myself and find raised beds filled with compost, manure and topsoil so easy to look after now the hard labour of installing them is done. Weeding is a doddle, and the clay below acts like an irrigation system.

Just a thought...

BTW - Welcome to the vine

[Capsid]

Thanks Capsid, would I add this after I had rotovated or before, and how long would you wait before planting after you have worked in the manure or compost?

Depends how good the rotavator is at digging in the compost. If the compost is twiggy stuff then it may get stuck in the rotavator, but if it's like multipurpose compost you buy then this will get incorporated fine. If the compost is well rotted then it can be dug in straight away. Planting can occur straight away if the compost is well rotted.

With regards to the grass if I removed the top 4" of earth or so (I presume I would have to do this if couch grass as roots would be difficult to remove from clay) would I need to replace the top soil or could I just dig in the manure and compost in straight away (as presumably this adds nutrients to the soil).

Once again thanks for your help.

I don't think you need to replace the top soil unless your clay underneath is solid stuff, then it may be better to go the raised bed route as pumpkin becki suggests.

[Ibroxblue]

Pumpkin Becki,

I had thought about raised beds but thought that would be an expensive route to begin with - can I please ask what size yours are and how deep they are, and is there an inexpensive way to make them.

Capsid,

Thanks once again for your help - I am sure I will be back asking more questions after I have been digging for two days!!

[HeyWayne]

You can make raised beds for free - some people have used old wine bottles (neck end down) placed into the ground, others have built raised beds using old pallets broken up.

I've created a few using old scrap metal from work - only the imagination limits what they can be made of (well, plus the odd toxic material/coating).

On another note - clay soil is pretty good for water retention, especially during the "dry" months.