Bare soil syndrome?

[Snadger]

Ok, once again I'm setting myself up to be shot down It all makes for good humoured banter (I hope!) and healthy debate!

I know the logic behind turning the soil over to allow frost to break down the clods, kill any pests and generelly make the area look more presentable!

To my mind though, an area of land that always has a crop(even if it's green manure) is infinately more presentable and more in keeping with the ethos of GYO!
As an example, most of the allotment holders on our site have turned the land over and left it fallow for the winter...What a waste!!! Some of the more enlightened take a crop out, and depending on the following crop(from there crop rotation plan) incorporate muck into the surface or do a bit surface cultivation and replant with for instance brassica's (dusting around the plants with hydrated lime)
Once again, and this is a personal view, I judge how good and productive,(which let's face it is the reason why I have my lottie),a vegetable/flower gardener is by how much of his plot is planted at all times! Of course taste and freshness is the prime reason for growing but yield per square metre and good husbandry plays a part as well!

I think allotment comittee's are a lot to blame for this as, as long as the plots are turned over and tidy for the winter, they are happy!

Our soil is a deep loam and doesn't clod up so the frost does very little good! In fact as soon as it rains the soil becomes flattened

Some of the old hands who nigh on live on site and sit weed watching, have turned there soil over three times this autumn because weeds have kept sprouting with the mild weather!

Every time I walk past a bare plot with a lovely seedbed I have the urge to jump over the fence and plant something in it, even if it's only green manure!

Yes a recently turned over plot looks tidy, but a well maintained plot full of healthy produce at all times gives me a lot more satisfaction!

Appologies to all who have to contend with clay soil as this logic goes out the window and my heart goes out to you!

[Mrs Dobby]

If we had gotten our plot earlier and had it cleared quicker then I'd love to have something growing in there Snadger (other than the 90 onion sets and 47 garlic that is growing), as to my mind the plot is there to grow things, not sit looking pretty! So if we could, we would have growing things, but we were too late this year, will have to trey harder next year!!

[Snadger]

If we had gotten our plot earlier and had it cleared quicker then I'd love to have something growing in there Snadger (other than the 90 onion sets and 47 garlic that is growing), as to my mind the plot is there to grow things, not sit looking pretty! So if we could, we would have growing things, but we were too late this year, will have to trey harder next year!!

Ok Mrs D, I'll give you special dispensation this year then! Lol

[Mrs Dobby]

Thanks Snadger, feel much better and relieved now I know I'll not get marks deducted for not trying hard enough! lol!

[Lesley Jay]

Snadger allotment committees cannot tell plot holders what to grow and when. There is enough work to do sorting out the plots that are considered uncultivated never mind telling plot holders with cultivated plots that they must plant throughout winter.

[Snadger]

Snadger allotment committees cannot tell plot holders what to grow and when. There is enough work to do sorting out the plots that are considered uncultivated never mind telling plot holders with cultivated plots that they must plant throughout winter.

I wouldn't dream of telling anyone what to grow, all that I am saying is that to an alotment comittee a tidy plot is (ie bare) is looked upon as a productive and tidy use of the land and better than a weed ridden plot.

I pay an annual rent for my plot and rather than leave it bare for half the year I think it is better cultivated. Most people see a tidy dug over plot without a weed and say " Crikey look at the work he's put into that, he's a good gardener" I don't, thats all!

[madderbat]

I do agree that growing land looks better than bare soil, but Mr MB has a penchant for 'tidying up'! (I think it all stems from his mother's training, but I'm working on him.)
We have got spring cabbage, onions , garlic, leeks, herbs, raspbery canes, borage, comfrey, artichokes, an apple tree and 3 rhubarb crowns, so it's not completely bare.
He's put some leeks and parsnip seedlings in the cold frame today, so more to come (I hope)

[Smuff]

Ok, once again I'm setting myself up to be shot down It all makes for good humoured banter (I hope!) and healthy debate!

I know the logic behind turning the soil over to allow frost to break down the clods, kill any pests and generelly make the area look more presentable!

To my mind though, an area of land that always has a crop(even if it's green manure) is infinately more presentable and more in keeping with the ethos of GYO!
As an example, most of the allotment holders on our site have turned the land over and left it fallow for the winter...What a waste!!! Some of the more enlightened take a crop out, and depending on the following crop(from there crop rotation plan) incorporate muck into the surface or do a bit surface cultivation and replant with for instance brassica's (dusting around the plants with hydrated lime)
Once again, and this is a personal view, I judge how good and productive,(which let's face it is the reason why I have my lottie),a vegetable/flower gardener is by how much of his plot is planted at all times! Of course taste and freshness is the prime reason for growing but yield per square metre and good husbandry plays a part as well!

I think allotment comittee's are a lot to blame for this as, as long as the plots are turned over and tidy for the winter, they are happy!

Our soil is a deep loam and doesn't clod up so the frost does very little good! In fact as soon as it rains the soil becomes flattened

Some of the old hands who nigh on live on site and sit weed watching, have turned there soil over three times this autumn because weeds have kept sprouting with the mild weather!

Every time I walk past a bare plot with a lovely seedbed I have the urge to jump over the fence and plant something in it, even if it's only green manure!

Yes a recently turned over plot looks tidy, but a well maintained plot full of healthy produce at all times gives me a lot more satisfaction!

Appologies to all who have to contend with clay soil as this logic goes out the window and my heart goes out to you!

This is heresy
I was raised (as were my forefathers going back into the mists of time) to believe that the ground has to rest sometime. In the good old days soil was turned over, weeds were persecuted and all was well with the world.

Personally, I would prefer to have year round productivity (in the same manner as all year round interest in the flower/herbacious border) but my clay soil (ultra cloddy) and permafrost inducing temperatures limit plant choice and growing season. Although I have some crops in the ground at this time of year they tend to stop growing or "over winter".
It's an environmental constraint I have to cope with in the same way some folk struggle with drought like conditions during the summer.

[Snadger]

This is heresy
I was raised (as were my forefathers going back into the mists of time) to believe that the ground has to rest sometime. In the good old days soil was turned over, weeds were persecuted and all was well with the world.

Personally, I would prefer to have year round productivity (in the same manner as all year round interest in the flower/herbacious border) but my clay soil (ultra cloddy) and permafrost inducing temperatures limit plant choice and growing season. Although I have some crops in the ground at this time of year they tend to stop growing or "over winter".
It's an environmental constraint I have to cope with in the same way some folk struggle with drought like conditions during the summer.

Oh dear, does this mean i'm a Heretic? Something else to add to list of names i've been called in the past!

In my own defence I did indtall a 'cop out' clause in my last paragraph!

I can see the benefit of exposing the land to the rigours of winter on a clay soil, and as I said my heart goes out to you Smuff!

I still say, and this is my own view, not something i've picked up from a book or been taught, that as long as good husbandry is practiced and we don't rely on inorganic fertilisers the majority of land could be better utilised. (excluding clay soils). I would wonder, what is the land going to gain whilst resting? Its structure won't be improved, and surely the nutrients will be depleted through winter rain?.
Just as I agree with the no-dig principle, our forefathers would have been aghast at the idea! So I am not saying I am right, all I am doing is practisiing lateral thinking, and hopefully not Heresy!

[nick the grief]

Righht, seeing as my Colleague & fellow committee member let you off ( MRS J) I'll have a go instead - prepeare for a booting

A plot in "Cultivation" to my mind means being used, my old plot for instance isn't being dug at the moment cos I'm leaving soon to my new one, it does how ever have about 12 rows of leeks & 36 brussel plants on it ( hence the strong winds from the south). The part I grew the tatties on has either been dug over or has been mucked & covered the majority of the rest is covered to exclude the light so no weeds. Hopefully the person or persons who take it over will have a flying start next year with more than half in a state thay can use.

What the committee don't want to see is a plot where nothing has been done to it so it resembles a jungle as this then causes a nuisance to the neighbouring plots. We too have the weed watching brigade and I have to say all (bar one) understand that I can only get down at the weekend so don't moan at me.

As too the merits of growing Green manure, I think that that would be an excellent idea Snadger as mot only does it look ok it protects the soil & stops leaching.

I'm like mrs D though only haveing just taken over the new plot I cant do much about it so am just forking it over as and when I can to keep the weeds down, but I have managed to get in 3 rows on broad beans, 1 row of Garlic & 4 rows of Jap onions.

So there

[Lesley Jay]

Did I let Snadger off Nick? I thought I was firm but polite!

[nick the grief]

as always LJ

[Snadger]

Righht, seeing as my Colleague & fellow committee member let you off ( MRS J) I'll have a go instead - prepeare for a booting

A plot in "Cultivation" to my mind means being used, my old plot for instance isn't being dug at the moment cos I'm leaving soon to my new one, it does how ever have about 12 rows of leeks & 36 brussel plants on it ( hence the strong winds from the south). The part I grew the tatties on has either been dug over or has been mucked & covered the majority of the rest is covered to exclude the light so no weeds. Hopefully the person or persons who take it over will have a flying start next year with more than half in a state thay can use.

What the committee don't want to see is a plot where nothing has been done to it so it resembles a jungle as this then causes a nuisance to the neighbouring plots. We too have the weed watching brigade and I have to say all (bar one) understand that I can only get down at the weekend so don't moan at me.

As too the merits of growing Green manure, I think that that would be an excellent idea Snadger as mot only does it look ok it protects the soil & stops leaching.

I'm like mrs D though only haveing just taken over the new plot I cant do much about it so am just forking it over as and when I can to keep the weeds down, but I have managed to get in 3 rows on broad beans, 1 row of Garlic & 4 rows of Jap onions.

So there

Phew!!! Crikey Nick, I was expecting a right pasting! Lol

I did expect more flack generally as I realise this is an immotive subject!

Deep respect to 'Old Billy' my lottie neighbour. No heirs and graces but a wealth of knowledge, and a productive allotment. Very innovative and enthusiastic even though he's in his seventies! A true 'Man of the land' and my mentor!

PS I knew you would bite LJ,!!!!! But honestly,deep respect to you and Nick and all lottie committe members who do a sometimes thankless task for no pay!

[nick the grief]

what do you mean no pay - I'm on £60k +exp+company car .... only joking

[Lesley Jay]

What do you mean no pay??