New allotment

[BristolBirds]

Hi, we have had out allotment now for just 3 weeks. First time for both of us. Its 100ftx20ft, when we first arrived to find it mostly covered in massive brambles (ground covered in plastic but brambles had grown through!)it was a little bit daunting....Next day armed with loppers, hedge trimmers, petrol strimmer and most importantly a flask of coffee we braved the brambles...Three days work later and the brambles were down, we were scratched and splintered but what a wonderful feeling we both had sat in our allotment and the end of the day with our coffee watching the sun go down...Next day we had pallets and 3 ton of well rotted horse manure delivered all for free. Out of 9 of the pallets we have made 3 large compost bins. Which solved the problem of what to do with all of the cut down brambles. They filled 2 of the bins nicely, which is where they will stay until we get round to burning em.
We uncovered some of the ground one end of the allotment, and started to dig......two weeks later we are still digging. We have so far managed to dig an area 10ftx20ft, I have never seen soil like it, very heavy, clay, with massive boulders of unbreakable clay throughout.
Anyway we have continued to dig, double digging adding a load of manure, but there are big clods of clay soil, which need breaking down. The weather seems to be helping with this, is there anything else anyone can suggest??
Will this break down, and be easier to dig by spring? Also the ground is full of bramble root,we are taking out what we can. Anyone had any experience in planting in ground previously occupied by triffid like brambles.?
I would be very grateful of any advise.....Cheers

[Sue]

Bristolbirds
Welcome to the vine, and my goodness you have been busy, hope it all goes well for you.

I garden on heavy clay, horribly waterlogged at the moment. Mine has lumps of yellow/white/grey nodules in it which are impossible to break down, it looks almost like big stones that have gone rotten if that's possible. I have resorted to pulling it out of the ground intended for beds and burying it under where the paths are going. Is that what you have or is it the clay itself in lumps?
As for brambles, I have the allotment hedge running at the top of my two allotments and when I took over it had advanced some 8 foot into the plot with killer brambles. These were cut back and the brambles in the hedge still have to be ruthlessly pruned back, but I did get a good crop of blackberries from them. The runners were dug up where possible and this mostly seemed successful. However I wasn't dealing with major plant roots just the suckers. I don't seem to have had much regrowth and what there is can be grubbed up until it weakens and dies.
Good luck with the allotment and keep us posted
Sue

[supersprout]

What an inspiration Bristol Birds! This says it all, really:

what a wonderful feeling we both had sat in our allotment and the end of the day with our coffee watching the sun go down

I wish I'd heard about mulching years ago. Now I don't dig, weed or water, thanks to heavy mulching - up to 8" suppresses weeds, keeps the water in the soil, and provides plenty of organic matter for worms to dig into the soil. More at http://www.organicgardening.com/feat...21-189,00.html

There always seems to be a 'scary bit' around the bramble patch. This year, I've put woven plastic membrane as close to the roots of the brambles as I can get it, over a layer of pony poo, mature or fresh compost, spent hops, paper or vegetable shreddings, straw, leaves and leaf mould, hay or whatever I can find - then plant a clearing crop through it - probably squash. Squash leaves will cover the membrane and you can just leave them until September/October until they're ready to harvest, knowing that the weeds and suckers aren't getting any worse. If necessary, I'll repeat next year

[Mrs Dobby]

Welcome to the vine BristolBirds and congrats on getting your plot! You've certainly been very busy clearing it, thats quite a job you've done there!

Best thing for heavy clay soil is to add as much organic matter as possible, and to continue to do so every year, it will make the ground more friable and eventually improve the soil texture!

I noted that you are going to be putting in paths, does this mean you are making raised beds also? If so, then you can add a good layer of compost to the top and give yourself as much depth of soil as you can, plus it means you dont need to stand on the growing areas, which should help to keep the soil condition better as it wont get compressed from you walking on it! Another good way to break up the soil is with a good crop of potatoes, as they have the effect of helping to break up the soil!

If your soil is very heavy and full of stones / clay nodules then I'd be careful about planting carrots into it, as they may well fork, perhaps try growing them in containers instead?

If possible I'd concentrate om removing as many of the bramble roots as you can when digging the plot, as that way you'll hopefully stop them from returning!

Anyhows, I'm sure some of the more experienced grapes will be along shortly with plenty more (and probably better!) advice!

[Earthbabe]

Congrats on the lottie BB and welcome to the Vine. I don't have any experience of clay but thought I'd say Hi.

Well done on the progress so far though.

[JennieAtkinson]

Welcome to the Vine BristolBirds and congrats on you allotment plot and the work done so far. Glad you are really enjoying it. Keep posting and keep us informed of how you get on with your lottie.

Sorry can't help with clay soil - I have a superb peaty loam here (aren't I lucky!)

[Jayneylass]

Hi Bristol Birds

I'm in South Suffolk, but like you have a plot on sticky clay.
You are doing the right thing with the clay soil by adding manure and leaving it to the elements. If we have any frosts, it really works. Believe me, I took on a disused (10+ years) allotment as a Christmas pressie last year, and I did as you did.

The soil is now very friable and I''m pleased as punch that it was done entirely with my own fair hands (and a fork), but no help from rotavators etc. Those things only spread the weeds over the rest of your plot!

Keep on top of the brambles as you have; just dig out and burn as you find.
Keep cutting & digging at them to weaken them. Sadly, like you I find that they will grow any which way to find the light! So, cover unused ground with old carpet or suppresant. The soil underneath will improve on its own, with weeds underneath dying off very slowly. It then makes it much easier to dig when you are ready.

My best advice is to not feel as though you have to dig the entire plot this year. You'll break your backs & get demoralised by trying to keep on top of the weeding when the growing season starts. Simply cover up what you can't get round to until next year.

My fellow allotmenteers think I'm mad, but it's worked for me as I don't get enough time to work on the plot as I'd like. I have one half of my plot in good nick now and this year I'm starting on the other half which I simply covered with carpet. I'm not overwhelmed by the work and trying to keep it all weed free.

Also, I'd definately go with the advice of growing spuds in at least one bed. It breaks down the soil very well and you get a great crop at the end.

Good luck and keep up the hard, but excellent work achieved so far.

[BristolBirds]

Hi, thank you to you all for the wonderful advice, I will be trying all of the above....I cant wait!! It feels like I have two dislocated shoulders today so I thought I'd best lay off the digging, plus the weather was crappy again! Is it normal for me to be thinking non stop about the allotment?, I cant seem to concentrate on anything else. When can I get up there?, what will the soil be like?, where shall I put the paths?, raised beds or flat beds?, where can
I get a shed?, where can I get a green house?, what shall I grow?, Where shall I grow it?.......I gotta get a grip!!! But im just so excited, I just cant wait to eat the first veg from the allotment! Ill try your different ideas with the soil, I can experiment in different area's as it is a big plot. We will continue to dig and manure till we cant dig anymore (hopefully because we've come to the end of the plot, and not because our arms and backs wont work anymore).
Once again thank you all for your advice and kind encouraging comments, I'll keep you posted, and im sure ill be on to you all for more advice soon.
Regards.

[Mrs Dobby]

Hi, thank you to you all for the wonderful advice, I will be trying all of the above....I cant wait!! It feels like I have two dislocated shoulders today so I thought I'd best lay off the digging, plus the weather was crappy again! Is it normal for me to be thinking non stop about the allotment?, I cant seem to concentrate on anything else. When can I get up there?, what will the soil be like?, where shall I put the paths?, raised beds or flat beds?, where can
I get a shed?, where can I get a green house?, what shall I grow?, Where shall I grow it?.......I gotta get a grip!!! But im just so excited, I just cant wait to eat the first veg from the allotment! Ill try your different ideas with the soil, I can experiment in different area's as it is a big plot. We will continue to dig and manure till we cant dig anymore (hopefully because we've come to the end of the plot, and not because our arms and backs wont work anymore).
Once again thank you all for your advice and kind encouraging comments, I'll keep you posted, and im sure ill be on to you all for more advice soon.
Regards.

Best thing for sore shoulders is a hot bath, a glass of vino and a nice massage from anyone you can get to give it!

Normal to be thinking non stop about the plot? Yep, sure is, wont be long now till you get 2nd plot syndrome!

As to layout, measure it up and make plans, if you are going with a no-dig bed system then try to keep the beds to a maximum of 4' or 5' wide, so you can reach all areas without too much stretching (tho I have heard of folks making use of a 'bridge' of scaffold plank to get access to the center of larger beds without walking on the soil, so that could be an alternative!), and plan out how wide you want your paths! A minimum is needed between every other bed, just enough for you to get down it, but I'd suggest every 2nd path is at least 2' wide, to make it easier to run your wheelbarrow up and down it, and dont forget to make some connecting paths every now and again, ok you may loose a bit of growing space, but its no fun having to walk 20 meters to get onto the other side of your bed!! Dont forget to set aside areas for your shed, greenhouse, compost bins, a place to sit, possibly a wildlife pond, the choices are yours and its up to you what you choose to do with your space!

For sheds and greenhouses try your local Freecycle group, or keep an eye on local papers ads and bulletin boards in libraries / supermarkets / etc. We managed to get a 10' by 8' aluminium greenhouse for free not too long ago, ok it cost us about £35 to re-errect and reglaze the broken panes, but a lot cheaper than a new one (that we could not have any way afforded!)

As to what to grow, make a list of what you like to eat, then look around for seeds that you want, order lots of seed catalogues to browse and to give you ideas, then find the cheapest place you can! Alanromans is very good online, plus look in your local Instore / Poundstretcher / Wilkinsons, as they are usually very good value and have some excellent gardening gear, quite often on offer!

Where to grow it, try and keep your planting arranged into one of 4 main types of veg, as it will make for easier crop rotation in subsequent years, so Brassicas (cabbages and broccollis, etc), Root crops (Onions, carrrots, swedes, turnips, parsnips etc), Legumes (Peas and Beans) and Potatoes! Also factor in whether you want to set aside any areas for permanent crops, such as fruit trees and soft fruits (strawbs, rasps, goosegogs, currants etc), asparagus beds and possibly a herb bed.

Anyhows, have fun and I hope this was of some help!

[Snadger]

Love your signature Mrs D!!!

Thats why God gave us four cheeks...he made an ar*e of the first two!

[Mrs Dobby]

I saw it on a plaque in one of the local garden centers yesterday Snadger, and knew that I had to have it as a signature! I just 'knew' that you, Nick and Piglet willie would thoroughly appreciate it! lol!

[kirsty b]

Welcome BristolBirds

I took an an allotment in November which was completelt taken over by brambles, 7ft high in some bits, but mostly 4-5ft, which is plenty high enough, believe me!
Also have clay soil and plan on getting out as much root as I can and then building raised beds. My first job that I want to get finished now is to clear enough space to put in my early spuds, and while they are doing their bit at breaking up the soil, I'll make a start on the next bit

Don't worry about being obsessed, I am too. when at the lottie I'm constantly thinking about what I'm doing and if I get downhearted about the amount of heavy work still to do, I visualise it as its going to look later in the year, hopefully with more veg than weeds growing! When at home I'm either re-reading my copies of GYO, here on the forum or looking through my seed books. (I do get some housework done though!) My OH calls it green fingered porn but he's even getting into it now, bringing me home useful bits and pieces and coming down there to help me sometimes and suggesting veg/fruit that we could try when the lottie is ready.

As obsessions go, its a very healthy one, as long as you take care of your back and don't knacker it digging too much at once!

[dexterdoglancashire]

Hi BB and welcome to the Vine. I've just got my lottie as well, so am looking forward to hearing how you get on! Dexterdog

[nick the grief]

I saw it on a plaque in one of the local garden centers yesterday Snadger, and knew that I had to have it as a signature! I just 'knew' that you, Nick and Piglet willie would thoroughly appreciate it! lol!

Maybe you should change your avatar to match

[nick the grief]

Hi BB,

Welcome to the Vine. You've done a fair bit in 3 weeks, keep it up.