Advice and experiance would be of great help to a newbie

[toffee565]

Hi all i would like to pick your brains please i'm new to this site and any help would be appreciated. i am running a project with young women(18-21) both myself and these have never grown anything before and have just finished are allotment ready for the spring we have made 8 3mx1.2m beds with raising them with reclaimed bricks and laying paving slabs to create paths all beds have been manured before christmas and we are getting some good top soil in to fill them abit.
i need help in what to sow/plant in each one, should one bed be used for just onions while another for cabbages? and yet another for beans etc i've been reading up and searching the internet but i am still confused any help would be welcome thankyou

[OllieMartin]

As a standard 3-bed rotation would be:

1. Roots: beetroot, carrot, potato
2. Brassicas: broccoli, brussels, cabbage, cauliflower, radish, swede
3. Others: cucumber, lettuce, onion, leek, pea, tomato

and then move each one on one next year.

However, I've read that beans don't do too well next to onions. And most grapes will tell you that it doesn't really matter where you plant your crops so long as you don't put the same type in the same spot as you just took out. Reason being that not only will the last crop have taken the nutrients that the new crop will probably want, but it may have left infections like blight (potatoes and tomatoes) that will attack the new crops.

I use a 4-course rotation, but there's loads of information out there about different systems.

[Two_Sheds]

It sounds like you've made a great start.

Ollie gives good advice about crop rotation (it's to prevent diseases etc)

It's also a good idea to separate your groups of crops because they have different requirements.
eg. all brassicas need netting against butterflies; onions don't. Potatoes like a slightly acid soil; brassicas hate it.

[OllieMartin]

Sorry, just noticed I told you about a 3-course rotation because I thought you said you had 3 1.2m beds, not "8 3mx1.2m" beds.

A good system for 8 beds might be:

1. Roots: carrots, beetroot, parsley
2. Brassicas: brussels, cabbages, broccoli, cauliflower, turnips, swedes, cohlrabi
3. Legumes: peas, beans, (you can put your aliums in here too, onions, garlic, leeks etc)
4. Potatoes
Rotate these each year

5. Asparagus perhaps
6. Strawberries
7. Rhubarb
These can take a couple of years to get going so it's handy to have them in separate beds.

8. Salad crops and herbs, although these are easy to interplant amongst the other crops as they don't take up much space and will grow in most conditions.

Don't worry too much about your rotation at the moment though. It's easy to get bogged down in it and it's not amazingly important. Just be aware of not following like-for-like and also, as Two_Sheds says, be aware what each plant will be wanting acid/alkaline wise. That said I didn't Ph test my soil last year and everything grew fine except for my shallots.

[Two_Sheds]

we have made 8 ... beds

That is an easy 4-bed rotation (just count 2 adjacent beds as one)

1) alliums
2) spuds & roots
3) brassicas
4) legumes, sweetcorn & anything else like salads


Or, if you are planting fruit & asparagus, you could use 2 beds as permanent beds, then do a 3-bed rotation with the remaining six (again, treating 2 beds as one)

1) roots & spuds
2) brassicas & alliums
3) legumes, sweetcorn & anything else like salads


that's prolly exactly what Ollie said, but my brain is a bit foggy today

[OllieMartin]

that's prolly exactly what Ollie said, but my brain is a bit foggy today

A little bit different, but then "ask a different gardener, get a different answer!" (Who's got that as their signature?)

[toffee565]

Hi Guys thanks for the advice when i first started this project i didnt think it would be this difficult ha ha, though i am so addicted also the girls have really taken to it which is a massive plus.
just to let you know what seeds we have:
Broad beans
runner beans
Jerusalem artichokes
globe artichokes
french beans
cabbages
brussel sprouts
broccoli
leeks
parsnips
carrots
beetroots
chilli's
aubergines
squash
courgette
spinach
lettuces
forgot to mention that i am lucky that we have been given a little bit of a polytunnel and heated green house,
the plan is to grow the above and teach the girls some life skills by using the hopefully grown vegetables in cooking classes fingers crossed

[toffee565]

Sorry, just noticed I told you about a 3-course rotation because I thought you said you had 3 1.2m beds, not "8 3mx1.2m" beds.

A good system for 8 beds might be:

1. Roots: carrots, beetroot, parsley
2. Brassicas: brussels, cabbages, broccoli, cauliflower, turnips, swedes, cohlrabi
3. Legumes: peas, beans, (you can put your aliums in here too, onions, garlic, leeks etc)
4. Potatoes
Rotate these each year

5. Asparagus perhaps
6. Strawberries
7. Rhubarb
These can take a couple of years to get going so it's handy to have them in separate beds.

8. Salad crops and herbs, although these are easy to interplant amongst the other crops as they don't take up much space and will grow in most conditions.

Don't worry too much about your rotation at the moment though. It's easy to get bogged down in it and it's not amazingly important. Just be aware of not following like-for-like and also, as Two_Sheds says, be aware what each plant will be wanting acid/alkaline wise. That said I didn't Ph test my soil last year and everything grew fine except for my shallots.

Thnks Ollie but i was going to do some carrots in a bucket as i've read somewhere that you cant sow carrots in manure?

[geoff]

Club together and take out a subscription for GYO magazine. Reading a magazine is a way to get instant experience and ideas. There are also extra benefits and offers for subscribers
Similarly, go to your library and read as much as possible. This will explain the various techniques and get you used to the jargon. Look for titles specifically about vegetables and allotments as most general gardening books tend to concentrate on flowers

[Bigmallly]

All brassicas need netting against butterflies.

I just would like to emphasize TS's point as you have not mentioned protection for your cabbages, caulis, broccoli, sprout etc..........It's vital that you net them or you will be plagued by caterpillars.

P.S Welcome to the vine toffee.

[geoff]

Grow some potatoes as well, they're robust and foolproof. They will also produce some impressive foliage so it looks as if you've been doing well, even if the spuds themselves are below ground. It will do wonders for the enthusiasm and confidence

No need to bother with any complicated trenches, just pop them in a hole about 6 to 8 inches deep.
Charlottes are nice salad potatoes and are ready to harvest fairly early. But besides seed potatoes, why not get everyone to bring a couple from their veg rack at home, then you should get a selection, and see what grows well or otherwise. Any that have already sprouted, or are too small or dried to eat will do

[Pies]

unless you know what was planted and where last year you can plant what you like where you like.Next year ensure you plant a crop from a different crop family in each bed and in year three yet another different one.Then you can go back to the beginning

Simples.

[Snadger]

Each bed doesn't need to be filled with one type of plant. I favour a more natural approach of mixing all my plantings up in small pockets within the beds. This includes brassicas, legumes,roots and flowers all in the same beds.
In my view crop rotation and monoculture is for farmers. If nice straight rows of single vegetables floats your boat then go for it.
I have symetrical beds set out in a Potager style but have evolved my own method of planting within these beds.
I merely point out that there's more than one way to skin a cat and to plant in small pockets, never following like with like and trying to get at least two crops from each pocket per season works well for me, is pleasing to the eye,productive and symbiosis with nature seems to work!!!

PS Try and find a place for flowers and a small pond if possible!

[toffee565]

Hi all,
thanks for all your advice, i like the sound of mixing it up abit just recieved Joy Larkhams creative gardening and will try some ideas out in a few beds?. We went to the greenhouse today and sowed some chillis and peppers so fingers crossed they will all germinate?
we are going to plant some sunflowers and other benifical plants when it gets warmer would these need a seperate bed or can we mix them with the vegetables?
we are also going to build a little pond and a creepy crawly tower.

[Paulottie]

Each bed doesn't need to be filled with one type of plant.
I have symetrical beds set out in a Potager style but have evolved my own method of planting within these beds.

Organised chaos?...I'm more of a 'boat floating' traditionalist on the lottie (well no raised beds any how) yet I like the Geoff Hamilton style Approach Snadger suggests - it has many merits including disguising your crops from predators (try finding a copy of his 'Ornamental Kitchen Garden'). Feels natural I certainly have grown veg in that cottage garden way at home before.


Dont know if it might be just a bit complicated for your purposes to start with though... its more for the experianced enthusiast. Not such an easy thing to teach, unless they have one bed each?..also the crops tend to come more little and often than big gluts but you must be constantly bringing on seedlings to fill gaps. Also helps if you are familiar with the scale and timing of things

Probably better the rotation method.