converting lawn to veggie beds

[K-AngeL]

I appreciate that this isn't an allotment but I hope you'll be understanding. I have recently moved house and now have approx 1/4 acre of lawn. I want to turn about half of this (for now) into veggie and fruit beds. I have looked at some of the other posts here regarding whether or not to rotivate but they all refer to plots covered in weeds rather than lawn. My question is slightly different therfore.

In order to convert the lawn to beds am I better off hiring a turf cutter and removing the turf then rotivating (The rotivator here isn't in question due to the area of ground I am dealing with) or will I be ok to simply rotivate in the lawn without stripping the turf first?

I have mowed the lawn as short as I can with a mower. Also the lawn is at least 3/4 moss, it seems to be well drained and wasn't waterlogged even during the heaviest rain. I think it has just been neglected for many, many years. It is very hard and I can't get a spade into it even to mark out an edge (my husband can but it's backbreaking). I wonder whether it will even be possible to rotivate it directly without removing the turf or even whether a turf cutter will cope.

I am hoping to do the work over the next few weekends so I can plant crops in april of this year. Any advice gratefully received, thanks.

[Flummery]

Hi - welcome to the Vine!
When I converted my long lawn into veg beds I stripped the turf and double dug. This enabled me to put the turf (brown side up!) into the bottom of the trenches I dug. Otherwise you have to stack the turf somewhere till it rots. It will rot eventually but it could be 2 - 3 years, but it makes fantastic compost.
If it's too hard to dig, you will need to rotatave but I'd get the turf off first or it'll keep growing back as weedy bits in your bed. Good luck with it - challenging but satisfying I should think.

[Bigmallly]

Because of my glass back & the ground being so hard, I would be tempted to take up the turf, put it aside to rot down or turn it over & put some raised beds on top of it.

P.S. Welcome to the vine.

[Jeanied]

Welcome to the vine K Angel - I have nothing to add to the wise words above. And I hate rotivators because I think they do more harm than good.

[Capsid]

Whatever way you do it, it's going to be hard work! The soil under lawns is usually very compacted and not in good condition. I converted my lawn to beds a few years back (see my blog) and I've still got some way to getting the soil in good condition. Lots of compost and digging. I always recommend growing spuds first as this involves moving the soil a lot (digging a trench, adding compost, earthing up, and finally digging the spuds out). It really helps break up the soil.

[OllieMartin]

I dug up half my lawn last may.
I did it during a period of particularly poor health and although it wasn't easy work, it's not the toughest thing to do it by hand.
I used a spade and cut a line about a foot from the edge across the lawn, then cut this strip into 1ft squares, crowbarring the turf up with each cut to break some of the roots.

Then just lifted the squares off and stacked them in a corner upside down. I had a really successful first year growing on the soil underneath and all I added was some bags of compost to fill the beds up a little.
I only double dug one of the beds (oddly enough the one that probably needed it least - brassicas).

I would imagine success is more dependant on your soil type, I suppose I was lucky in that respect.

[organic]

Have a quick look at this thread...
http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/gra...ing_44978.html
There's some good descripton and diagrams of double digging.

Be under no illusion though, it's hard work and if you don't do it right (as with most jobs, gardening or otherwise) you're liable to hurt your back. Normal back-care and proper lifting methods still apply when you've got a shovel or a fork in your hands.

I'm in the process of double digging my beds at the moment and I've found it really hard to get the soil dug from one trench to stay on top of the previous trench without falling back into where I'm digging. As a result I've changed the method to digging out the top spit (spade's depth) of the bed and throwing all the soil just outside where the bed is going, then breaking up the bottom spit with a fork and back-filling with the pile of soil I'm left with.

I'm digging ground that's had crops grown in i fairly recently and though it was compacted it's nothing like as hard as it would be under a lawn. If I was making a new bed under a lawn I'd be inclined to dig out both trenches and dump the turf green-side-down at the very bottom.

[K-AngeL]

Thanks for all the advice. The general consensus seems to be remove the turf/moss first or you'll get grass/moss growing back in the beds so I will hire a turf cutter for this weekend. After that I fully intend rotivating the ground as there is nothing growing in the lawn other than rather pathetic grass and fine healthy moss and I can't get a spade into it let alone dig it. Although I understand the issues with rotivating ground with plants that spread by root pieces I don't understand why so many people are so down on them. Is there something I don't know?

[womble]

You can forget rotavating, it won't work on that ground.

Strip the turf and then double dig adding the turf upside down at the bottom, very hard work.

Make a raised bed and fill it with organic stuff and either plant directly into it or cover and leave for a year, everything will be naturally rotavated by the worms.
I've covered lawn with cardboard and then piled organic matter on top of that, then left it for a while as well, that works.

How you set out your bed now will last for a long time. I would say if you want to plant stuff this year, spending a bit more time doing a smaller amount of space properly and getting the soil dug deeply, is better than doing a rush job on a bigger area.

Whatever, start planning to get hold of vast amounts of leaf mould, compost, horse muck, anything you can get your hands on.

[Two_Sheds]

I understand the issues with rotivating ground with plants that spread by root pieces I don't understand why so many people are so down on them. Is there something I don't know?

they only go down so far, they don't double dig. If you have a hard pan under the soil it needs to be at least forked over, for improved aeration and drainage (although you say your lawn is free-draining?)

Article about cultivators here

If your lawn has a lot of moss, is it shady? Shade is going to limit what veggies you can grow.

"The most common reasons for moss build up in your lawn are:

Excessive moisture
Drought
Shade
Compacted soil
Clay soil
Poor drainage
Excessive thatch
Grass mowed too low
Poor nutrient levels"


It sounds like you'd do well to get in as much well-rotted compost and manure as you can, to tackle any deficiencies.

[K-AngeL]

The soil under the lawn seems fine if rather rooty. I can easily get a fork into the lawn and lift a square and fork down to at least 2 fork depths but I can't for the life of me get a spade in and cut under it to lift turf or along it to create an edge. With a fork it breaks up easily it seems to only be the roots that hold it together. It is free draining and is in full sun for most of the day depending on time of year. The house was empty for years so the lawn won't have been watered, fed or properly raked out after mowing in that time which I guess explains the moss.

[Two_Sheds]

I can't for the life of me get a spade in and cut under it

I had the same problem when I dug up my front lawn. I ended up soaking it the day before I dug it, it really helped (leave the hose on it).

I have a bad back, so I could only dig for 20 mins at a time, but I got there in the end.

[Flummery]

As Two Sheds says, little and often. I dug mine over a period of a couple of months doing half an hour each evening, after work and before I started cooking the dinner.

[vicky]

I'm currently creating a new veggie garden out of a bit of field and I've done two different things
1 Where the potatoes will be I've just turned the soil over, weeds and all (as potatoes will clear and clen the soil of weeds)
2 For the more delicate crops I've removed the turf and stacked it for compost then dug the soil underneath (not double dug as the soil is good already)
Although the prep for bed 2 is better it has taken at least double the time and has been really hard work!
Good luck and welcome to the vine!

[Two_Sheds]

Where the potatoes will be I've just turned the soil over, weeds and all (as potatoes will clear and clen the soil of weeds)

I'm afraid this isn't strictly accurate: the cleaning is done by the digging action of the gardener, as s/he plants, earths up and then harvests.
If you have couch grass, it will throw spears right through your spuds