I want to cry!

[Lazgaot]

Covering with a thick layer of cardboard works brilliantly. If I were in your boots I'd try and do the following:

1) Talk to your lottie buddy and agree on a bed system and layout.
2) Mark out the beds again with stakes and line to get them nice and orderly.
3) Cover them all with a couple of layers of cardboard. You can get this from most cornershops.
4) Look up your nearest mushroom grower and try and get a delivery of their spent mushroom compost. Make sure its well rotted.
5) Cover your beds to a depth of 6 or more inches with the compost and plant straight into the compost.

You might need to make edges for your beds to keep the compost on there and stop if falling into the paths. Most mushroom farms will give it away or sell it to you very cheaply.

Good luck!

[jackyspratty]

we're on the same soil as you & you need to incorporate loads & loads of manure etc as has been said above, there's a horse place on the ringroad past Sainsbugs where you can just turn up & take as much as you want & its really well rotted, let me know ifyou want the details.

Yes please hans mum that would be great, we did find a stable out near garforth but it was hard work as it wasnt that well rotted. My allotment has had a delivery now, but as I have a quarter plot I was only allowed a small amount (2 barrow loads). I think the soil is bad as its more like a large pit that has been dug so its not level with the grass (this was not done by us!), perhaps a foot below the grass level, so the quality is really bad and heavy. When i got the plot I was told that it had been worked by a farmer so wouldnt need much digging but its been really bad.

Rome wasn't built in a day and all that.

I'd split plot as then its your baby to do what you want on and grow what you please. Sharing is hard work! .

Initially we worked my friends plot together, but its too far away for me, as Im on foot. So we agreed to do the hardy, less fussy stuff and perennials at lotty 1, and at my new plot we would do the stuff that needs more of a regular eye kept on it. My friends plot is now in really good nick, but also the allotment is very organised, communal composting, bark piles etc, so everything you need is there. Mine is very much an inner city site, breakins, rubbish, but its also very disorganised, you need to organise it all yourself. We generally work very well together, its just bad luck that my friends workload increase at the time when it does on the plot too! We were also unfortunate with the weather like everyone else, so couldnt work it over winter.

Covering with a thick layer of cardboard works brilliantly. If I were in your boots I'd try and do the following:

1) Talk to your lottie buddy and agree on a bed system and layout.
2) Mark out the beds again with stakes and line to get them nice and orderly.
3) Cover them all with a couple of layers of cardboard. You can get this from most cornershops.
4) Look up your nearest mushroom grower and try and get a delivery of their spent mushroom compost. Make sure its well rotted.
5) Cover your beds to a depth of 6 or more inches with the compost and plant straight into the compost.

You might need to make edges for your beds to keep the compost on there and stop if falling into the paths. Most mushroom farms will give it away or sell it to you very cheaply.

Good luck!

Thanks, I'll google that and see what comes up near leeds. I'll also look into coffee grounds? There are a fair few coffee shops near me so I might be lucky? Does the coffee help braek the soil up?

Just want to say a big thanks to all of you, I was in a bit of a flap yeaterday! I went up his morning and moved some heavy sissal rugs we had over some of the plot and have been praying for rain! Black skies but nothing so far! Will tell my buddie a no on the glyphosite front, he is a gardener and uses the heavy duty stuff, but I assumed it would kill the roots too! If it doesnt there little point really as you still have to dig them out! Actually don't mind digging luckily!

[eieio]

I am having a hard time with mine at the moment too. Sounds like the same condition as yours plus my lottie neighbour has let hers go and as our plot was a larger one that was split in half, all her weeds are now taking over mine, that, the couch grass and rock hard soil - I just wanted to cry today!

[jackyspratty]

I am having a hard time with mine at the moment too. Sounds like the same condition as yours plus my lottie neighbour has let hers go and as our plot was a larger one that was split in half, all her weeds are now taking over mine, that, the couch grass and rock hard soil - I just wanted to cry today!

KNow how you feel! Feeling a bit more optimistic now tho thanks to all the experience and support on here. I can see how people give up easily! Take a deep breath and think of all the lovely veg! OUrs is a pit in the ground, so looks like all the good stuff has been taken away somewhere, which Im afraid we have increased! Hoping the cardbard holes technique will help the soil. Spoken to my lotty buddy, as have taken off the two rugs, its raining, hoorah!!! Cant find a free supply of spent mushrom compost in the area tho, and covering the cardboard with 6" is a large amount!

Does adding coffee grounds condition the soil and braek down the clay? How much of this should be added? Does it need to be dug in or put on top of the soil?

[zazen999]

Does adding coffee grounds condition the soil and braek down the clay? How much of this should be added? Does it need to be dug in or put on top of the soil?

Yes - as much as you can - either [the worms will soon dig it in for you].

Personally, the glypho didn't work so it's likely not to work again. Excluding the light really really helps and if you pull out it out as you go, as it grows round any edges; then when you dig in the card at the end of the season, it is much easier to get the remianing roots out [bit by bit, as things are harvested].

I personally don't like glypho; and after having a couch grass infested, thick clay lottie to start with - ours has really benefited from the additional organic material that we have added.

[jackyspratty]

Thanks for that. I really like the sound of that. Have sent details to lotty bud, hopefully will likethe idea too. Pointed out that its me who will be doing all the digging as he doesnt have time really, so should have no objections!
Thanks again. took photos today just need to get them on the computer, so will be able to monitor my progress, that should make me feel better too!

[Snadger]

Their has been a tightening up of the control and use of pesticides recently. The 'amateur' glyphosate based weedkiller you buy from the garden centre is only about 10% the strength of proffessional stuff.
I think the logic behind this is that untrained users are less likely to damage the enviroment this way?

Whenever using weedkillers it has to be looked upon as a last resort, and all other avenues have been explored. This goes for 'pro's' as well as amateurs.

I am re-reading Geoff Hamiltons The Ornamental Kitchen Garden, printed 20 years ago. This is what he says about using chemicals:-

"I have a theory that in a hundred years' time, just as we are incredulous at, for example, the physicians of yesteryear using leeches to draw blood as a universal panacea, our great-grandchildren will laugh at our use of chemicals. I can hear it now 'Just imagine, they would soak their vegetables in poisons and then eat them! They all knew very well they were poisonous, but they did it anyway. Must have been mad!"

I stopped using weedkillers, insecticides and fungicides many years ago relying on organic mulches and digging if need be, to give me peace of mind.

I rely on a diversity of planting to build up a natural balance of life.

[jackyspratty]

Ok quick update and a question (as always!!)

We have now marked out the pathswith weed suppressing membrane and covered the beds in cardboard, with manure on the top. There wasnt as much manure as we needed and we haven't manged to get any coffee grains yet, hoping to get some at the weekend.

In order to get a good layer of mulch on the top, could I also use grass clippings? Have a good supply of these as my lotty buddy is a gardener. I know I have to get a good depth of mulch on top, partly to keep the cardboard in place in between rain showers! Would grass be ok or would it just go mouldy and attract slugs? Also someone on the school run told me that grass clippings leach nitrogen from the soil like wood chippings? Bit confused now as Ive been putting grass cuttings around my fruit bushes!

Many thanks as usual! Hope to ty and post some pictures soon so you can see our progress! Wasnt too much new weed growth coming hrough when we laid the beds out so that at least was a bit of a result!

[geoff]

I had a problem on my plot with poor dusty soil which tended to set hard after rain, and lots of buttercup. I arranged with the council allotments officer last year that I would concentrate on improving the soil and not grow so much while that work was in progress
So I arranged for my own delivery of manure - a whole trailer load on the corner of my plot. That's about eight tons!
I divided the plot into paths and beds, and spread each bed with cardboard & newspaper topped with manure, and left it to rot for a few months. Then I dug it in
The buttercup is much reduced, and what there is, is easier to pull out. The soil now has a 'softer', more open texture, and I'm looking forward to good results this year

[Flummery]

Any material, as it rots down, can remove nitrogen from the soil. Wood chippings can take years though, whereas grass takes only a few weeks or months. Chuck some pelletted chicken manure on to add the nitrogen back - it might also help with rotting down.

[jackyspratty]

yes, thats what i'm intending but with some growing too, geoff. I think I will need to mix the mulch tho. Have a smal amount of manure at the moment and the entrance to the lotty is blocked by a skip so cant get a delivery of anything.

Thanks flum, will go ahead and use the manure, grass clippings and pelleted chicken manure. The bitof manure we had although it took hours of digging and loading a trailor didnt really cover the cardboard so was needing another way of increasing the mulch.

Cheers me dear

[Two_Sheds]

You can use the existing soil to weigh down the cardboard: you don't have to go acquiring coffee grounds, manure and wotnot.
Just use what you have.

The cardboard will stop the light reaching the weeds; you need something to weigh down the cardboard to stop it blowing away.
You don't have to (and you can't) do it all at once in your first year. Just concentrate on weakening the couch grass and getting some crops growing.
Add what soil improver (home-made compost, manure, leafmould etc) as and when you can, over the years.
Don't stress

[jackyspratty]

Thanks twosheds! Will try not to stress!!
Have just manged to get a regular supply of used coffee from local Mcdonalds up the road too. So with leaf mould and clipings hould be ok.

Think Im just eager to get stuff in the ground! Thanks to you all its already looking loads better than when we started and Im feeling more positive about improvin the plot. Also adding to my anxiety is the internal politics of the plot, people talking about suing each other, calling each other dogs, and accusing each other of vegatable sabotage! On top of his there is a general lack of communication between those that seem to make the decisions and the rest of he allomenteers! Its only a very small site so there is no escape from the tension! It was meant to be my little bit of vegatble heaven too! Ah well such is life!

My mantra is now "Think of the veg! Think of the veg!" to focus on the positive! As long as I can get some good potimarron for the seed saving circle I'll be chuffed, any thing else is a bonus this year, as realised early on my plans were a bit on the elaborate side!

Thanks guys your all gems

[zazen999]

'I'm only here to grow veg, not to get involved in politics' is what I would say when I first started out. I deliberately don't go for 'best kept' allotment either, even though I'm on the village committee...mine is a working lottie not a show garden

Glad to hear you are making progress.

[fran]

I took over my plot two Mays ago and it was covered in couch grass and 10foot high brambles, and heavy rock-like clay. I started on the easiest looking patch and covering most of it with smallish rugs, dug and turned over the ground, leaving huge clods, hand weeding all the roots and digging out the bramble roots which were huge. You have to do this after rain! After a bit more rain I attacked it with the azada and sprinkled compost all over it (our allotment gives us a couple of bags free every year!) and then put in my potatoes which had been chitting away. I had a fairly decent crop of spuds the first year - even if they didn't go in until June.

In the autumn I planted onion sets and dug as much as I could. Repeat the dig/spuds/other crops til it's all done! It works without chemicals and now my plot looks heaps better then most of the others (chiefly because I put in flowers and let some veg go to seed.) I will send you some pix when I can sort them out, so you can see for yourself.

Good luck! Fran