No dig, mulching and manure

[Kaiya]

Probably too much of a back story but here goes! The two main alloters in my family (me and my Dad) both have lumber spine pain that doesn't allow us to dig proper like, so having read Supersprout's posts on the advice of other grapes we're attempting a no-dig allotment this year. We're amazingly lucky with our allotment - within sight of our house, it was in good nick when we got it, it's clay that has been looked after, and it's in Essex, so the weather's fairly friendly. It's a small plot, only 9m by 6m, but it's more than enough for us to cope with.

I've laid out the beds in a five year rotation system. I've used the now uprooted and dead weeds as mulch which I know I will regret as they had seed heads, but the vast majority were marigolds so not a major hassle if they do re-emerge. I have also added some shredded paper (a scattering, not a complete layer) to all five beds and added horse manure in varying degrees to all but the carrot bed. I've covered it with water permeable weed membrane. Not the most attractive look but we need every help we can get against weeds, and it stops the paper blowing away.


My plan is to peel up the membrane to add more mulch as I find it - it's quite a challenge to find enough!

My main question is about manure. My luck has continued and I have a local source of free manure, bags of the stuff. Last weekend I got 5 bags, and only had to stop because my boot was full. I plan to get another bootful this weekend. My question is - is it possible to put too much manure on a no dig clay-based bed? Should I stop at some point and compost the rest or just keep piling it on (with other mulch like grass clippings etc.)?

[taff]

you can pile on as much as like as long as you mix it with some browns, because manure is classed as a green....

[rustylady]

Just be careful with your manure. Hopefully it doesn't contain residues from aminopyralid.

[Kaiya]

Thank you - I've obtained another bootful but it's staying in it's bags for now. Someone else has been by after me and cleaned them out of manure, so fingers crossed it's a reliable source. I've planted up some Autumn broad beans (half planted in compost as control, half planted in a 50/50 mix of compost and manure). It delays putting on the manure but worth checking before I dump more of it on.

I need to work on collecting cardboard - trying to get out of the habit of avidly recycling it all!

Many thanks.

[Two_Sheds]

I need to work on collecting cardboard

Nick it from the back of shops, esp. little local shops (big supers tend to hide it all away)

[bubblewrap]

Had my manure delivered the week end before last (1st October) about 5 tones of it.
I am having the pleasure of digging it in.
I never mulch & I have found a membrane a waste of time as the weeds just grow through it.
There is no substitute for digging.

[Curlykale]

Hi Kaiya

I get most of my cardboard from a local picture framer, who is always glad to be rid of it, and also from a shop which sells electrical goods like fridges, washing machines etc, as they seem to come with huge sheets of cardboard packaging which is ideal for covering beds. I also recently got some from a local furniture shop (was packaging from chairs, sofas etc).

[Two_Sheds]

There is no substitute for digging.

in your opinion

With the greatest of respect, mulching has been proven to be a terrific substitute for digging

[Kaiya]

I have noticed that with the allotment I'm going to have to be braver about asking for things like cardboard from shops etc.! I followed a staff member at the local garden centre around last weekend when she was carrying cardboard but wasn't brave enough to actually ask her for it. With a few pots on the patio I can get away with being shy and retiring - but that's not going to cut it now I have taken also to raiding the industrial sized recycling bins at work. Given I already stalk the medlar trees that grow on site there for windfalls digging through bins probably helps my reputation as an odd one...

in your opinion

With the greatest of respect, mulching has been proven to be a terrific substitute for digging

And indeed, for someone who can't sit without pain at the moment, let alone dig, there is little option! A life without growing things is not an option for me I am aware though, that if mulching is to substitute the bulk of digging for us, we have to become very very good mulchers.

Still no sign of baby bean plants yet in the manure test (it's only been a week), although from the telltale divots in the surface a mouse has nicked two. Interestingly, both from the non-horse manured pot! I don't begrudge it two beans, it's getting a bit nippy out.

[snohare]

I don't begrudge it two beans

Two today, how many tomorrow ? The time to be generous is when they are all up...

There is no substitute for digging.

I agree. I merely think that worms are the best diggers of all. Given time - and that's why spades were invented. Mulching is a strategy, digging is a tactic; the payoffs have corresponding timelines.
I absolutely love digging, but every time I do it I cringe at the thought of all the disturbed mycorrhizae, the nitrogen and carbon lost to atmosphere. The science of that is well proven (IMHO) it is just that digging will far more than recoup those losses;inefficiently perhaps, but no-one can say ineffectively. Were we in a drying climate with numerous droughts, I would forswear digging; it's a diabolical way to dry out the soil and create nutrient poor conditions for plants.
If I were a mulcher however, I think I'd be concentrating on creating a worm farm to help boost the soil/manure population, and trying to think ahead not to the next growing season, but the next winter.
<sigh> I envy you the job Bubblewrap, although I know that is the sort of thing a keen digger says before he starts on digging in 5 tonnes of manure.

[Kaiya]

Two today, how many tomorrow ? The time to be generous is when they are all up...

Indeed - beans are now on the top shelf

[snohare]

i Think you might find that it takes more than a little climbing to stop Mus musculus ! The wee darlings can jump a foot or more, and will climb anything that is not totally smooth and impossible to dig their claws into...there's a reason greenhouse staging is often made with round metal or plastic uprights.
I hear tell that in the olden days the gardeners used to dip their peas in paraffin, or lay creosoted string on the ground to deter them from sniffing them out and eating them...a more modern idea I've heard of is soaking them in urine (fertiliser and deterrent in one). Presumably this would work with beans as well. I wonder if the manure does the same thing ?
Haven't tried it myself, but I've seen folk lay out fine metal mesh grids above them until the shoots appear.
Mine are doing nothing at all at the moment. A bit cold for them I think.

[Two_Sheds]

I chit my peas & beans - no need for paraffin nor urine

It's said that chitting makes them unpalatable to the meeces

[zazen999]

I chit my peas & beans - no need for paraffin nor urine

It's said that chitting makes them unpalatable to the meeces

Someone should tell that to my meeces, my peas all germinated fine last week in this year's cucumber recycling box in the greenhouse - but have all been eaten leaving the tops of the stalks on top of the compost. Little blighters.

[snohare]

That's interesting zazen, I too always thought they were safe once they had chitted !
Is there a new breed of mus supermusculus now taking over the world...could that be why the cats around here are so frightened...

Two Sheds, how do you chit yours ? I normally stick mine in a jar and soak them in hot water, a la sprouting seeds, and just keep doing that until I see the sprouts appear. It has worked fine in the past.
But this year it has been a dismal failure - something like 10 out of 30 ADC broad beans (freshly bought from B & Q) and a slightly higher proportion of Meteor peas (from Dobies). That's after two weeks of continual rinsing/soaking. Does having peas and beans together make a difference do you think ? Or do they need to be kept in a warm room ?
Any advice gratefully accepted, I really want to get these going, and I've promised to do a friend's !