Weeds/Roots and No-Dig beds?

[OverWyreGrower]

OK, we got the rotavator and have used it over all the beds. The soil was very compacted, as nothign has been done to the field (except walking and mowing) for years (at least 5)

After we rotavated, I started to use a hoe and hand-cultivator thing to breaks the lumps up.

We have loads of long roots that look like spaghetti just under the soil. They criss-cross everywhere and after working on a small section of one of the beds for a couple of hours, it's obvious that I'm not going to be able to get rid of them all.

I don't know what they are (probably something awful like couch-grass!). Mr OWG thinks they could possibly be grass-roots, but we're clueless!
I'd like them to be green manure, but I doubt it!!

I think I'm going to have to devise some sort of no-dig system for this year.

Does anyone have any sort of idea how we can get around this problem? I knnow I can plant some stuff through plastic (e.g. potatoes, peas, sweetcorn) but what can I do about carrots etc thay need to be planted straight into the soil?

Any help very gratefully received!

[buttercup]

hi owg!
sounds like it is couch grass!
its i nightmare to clear, i spent the last couple of months clearing my plot of it and with not much success!
i wouldnt go near it with a rotovator because it will chop the roots up and they will ALL grow back!
i think couch grass is something that you really need to remove as much as possible before planting or sowing! it grows up through the root s of other plants! and im not sure that covering it over does that much good short term!
i hope someone comes and tells me im wrong though so i can finally get things in the ground without having to digg the rest of my plot
hope its helped a little!
cheers buttercup

[heebiejeebie]

Try carrots on a small area and see what happens? I'm a great one for learning from experience!

[denise]

OVG it sounds like bind weed to me, the plant that grows up though other plants and has the big white flowers, which as a kid we called 'Granny pop out of bed', cause if you sqeeze the base of the flower the petals pop out. It will grow from even the tiniest bit of root root and as you say is impossible to remove at first dig. As for your carrots, well i dont think i would bother to grow any root crops for a while, because haveing just stripped the grass off after so long, it may have lots of wire worm - little orange things that will burrow into any roots crops there. Not to sure how to get rid of them apart from time, i think they move to pastures new. No doubt there is some inorganic stuff you could use to do this job. Sorry to sound not to be more encouraging after all your hard work, but to plant carrots, potatoes etc and dig them to find them riddle with holes would be the pits.
i would go for peas, beans, cabbage, spinach loads of things you can grow.
maybe a more experenced grape will know a quicker / better soultion to this.

[OverWyreGrower]

Thought it would be something awful like couch grass!

I don't think it's bindweed, as there have been no leaves/flowers as such (thoughout last summer to the present). I know what the flowers look like (so pretty, but so nasty!) and the heart-shaped leaves and I've not seen anything like that.

I've dug a small patch to nearly a foot deep today, and the long roots are even that far down
We've no chance of removing that many roots. It took me a couple of hours yesterday working on a 2 foot square section, and still didn't get them all out!
We had to rotavate as the ground was so compacted that you could barely get a spade in!

I spoke to a "local" today who was working in a nearby field. He said they might be "wilts" (assuming local name!). He mentioned that the only way to get rid was round up - called it a godsend!

Will using something like round-up work? Although I'd like to grow as eco-friendly as possible, I think I might have to succumb to chemicals this year.

[OverWyreGrower]

Couch grass & brambles - plan

OK... after digging over 2ft down and still finding bramble and couch grass roots, we're at a bit of a dead end

(We have 4 beds which are 3 x 7m each. All are infested to some degree with couch grass and bramble roots. We've stripped the turf off them and rotavated each plot (to break the soil up) and have started to turn them over)

We have several ideas:

1) Get a mini-digger in, turn everything over and pick out the roots by hand
Issues: can't plant anything until it's done, time-consuming
2) Turn one bed over as best we can (the least infected bed). Plant as much as we can in that one bed. Deal with the rest of the beds over summer/autumn. Leave that bed fallow next year to recover it.
Issues: space, time-consuming
3) Turn all beds over and use RoundUp over at least 3 beds, hope it kills everything
Issues: there are no leaves, only roots, so we're not sure if RoundUp will work; can't plant anything for a few weeks afterwards

I'm really despondent about the whole thing now, especially after finding all the beds are full of roots

Does anyone else have any ideas, or know if RoundUp would work on plant roots?

[Happydigger]

I have found that digging over, planting potatoes ( muchmovement of soil in earthing up) and the use of Roundup or similar glyphosate weed killer when weeds are two to three leaves works well. Rotovating only breakes up the root for a more abundant crop of bindweed ground elder etc.

[Nicos]

Understand the problem.
Raised beds are probably the next step after glyphosate- with a membrane on the base.
You can't tame Nature - but you sure can tweek it a bit!!!

If you get your glyphosate from a farm suppliers , you'll find it much more concentrated than the Roundup that the garden centres are allowed to sell.
Gut feeling is that that will sort out most of the probs...but would still sort out a few raised beds.

[Two_Sheds]

My plot was infested with bindweed, bramble, couch, thistle - you name it. Just keep on digging it up. It WILL weaken, and you WILL win!
Just don't leave any bare soil, cos the weeds will move in....clear a bit, and plant it immediately (even with a green manure, or old carpet)

[Sue]

OWG
Am on a much smaller scale than you but my allotment seemed to be solid couch with a good helping of bindweed when I took it on. Due to the weather and imminnent arrival of first raspberries, a neighbour rotavated a strip for them - am still weeding it - poor raspberries.

The only way I can get rid of most of it is to sift the soil - far too slow for a larger area - a metre square has just taken me three days! However if a bit does grow back then the soil is loose enough to follow it back and dig out the offender. unfortunately the allotment paths are grass and that sends out nice long runners which have to be pulled out frequently.
For a large area it looks as if it is either a very slow organic method or if you want to cultivate this year then a chemical method seems the only option.

And following suggestions on the vine, I'm now putting the roots in a water butt for some stinky but nutritious feed.
Sue

[denise]

Was just browing theweb, like you do when I found an article about couch grass. It has redeeming features, honest, wel so it says here Iquote 'Despite its antisocial tendency in the garden, couch is a very useful herbal medicine and Culpepper is said to have stated that half an acre of couch was worth five acres of carrots twice over''
So we ned to embrace it and welcome it not dig it up? Maybe? What do you think?
Quote taken from
http://www.pfaf.org/database/plants....ytrigia+repens

[Pottypotter]

Was just browing theweb, like you do when I found an article about couch grass. It has redeeming features, honest, wel so it says here Iquote 'Despite its antisocial tendency in the garden, couch is a very useful herbal medicine and Culpepper is said to have stated that half an acre of couch was worth five acres of carrots twice over''
So we ned to embrace it and welcome it not dig it up? Maybe? What do you think?
Quote taken from
http://www.pfaf.org/database/plants....ytrigia+repens

Very interesting, how do you know its couch grass and not some other type of grass. At my allotments people call what I think might be couch grass twitch, is this the same thing?

[OverWyreGrower]

Very interesting, how do you know its couch grass and not some other type of grass. At my allotments people call what I think might be couch grass twitch, is this the same thing?

The roots are very long and white/cream and spaghetti-like... the "grass" on top just looked like overgrown lawn grass, so not actually sure.

From reading the vine and various gardening books, it seems like the roots may be from couch grass. They seem to be very invasive and the soil is riddled with them.

We're off to B&Q to buy some RoundUp and plastic sheeting to cover over the bits we have dug....

[Snadger]

Very interesting, how do you know its couch grass and not some other type of grass. At my allotments people call what I think might be couch grass twitch, is this the same thing?

It is known by many names, couch, twitch and whicken are three of them.

The rest are not for print I'm afraid!!!

[Snadger]

The roots are very long and white/cream and spaghetti-like... the "grass" on top just looked like overgrown lawn grass, so not actually sure.

From reading the vine and various gardening books, it seems like the roots may be from couch grass. They seem to be very invasive and the soil is riddled with them.

We're off to B&Q to buy some RoundUp and plastic sheeting to cover over the bits we have dug....

Sorry if this sounds patronising, but you do realise that RoundUp is a trade name for Glypsophate which is a systemic weedkiller.
It can only be translocated though actively growing foliage but becomes inert when in contact with the soil, or roots for that matter!
In other words, for Roundup to work you will need to allow the Rhysomes you have in the soil to grow and make leaves before you can blast it, but it will systemically kill all parts of the plant!