Weeds/Roots and No-Dig beds?

[Flummery]

Glyphosate doesn't work on the roots. It needs spraying on the active growth and will then work its way down to the root system. It still might take a few applications. You really need to let the evil thing grow and then knock it back. Don't be downhearted. You are higher up the food chain that it is! You can at least out-think it!

Flum

[BayViewPlot]

Thanks to Denise for the plant website.. was very useful in looking at my coltsfoot problem in a new light!

(yumyum)

[welsh veg grower]

Not sure blasting it will help you for growing this year.

We took on a small holding and the land at teh back which is now my veggie patch was a field that had only been used for sheep / cows for years (although am told was potatoes some 20 years ago!!)


My advice would be to take a small patch each year or when you have time you have several options, each suitable for a 1-2 meter square patch)

1. Dig up as much of the turf as you can and remove it totally. Use some old pallets taken to piecces to give you some thin short planks of wood and use them to form a side to your dug over area. Pop down some newspaper and then cardboard over the top. Then get yourself soem maure (pref a year or 2 old and some top soil and fill your patch and that one will do for non root crops.

2. mark out other patches and vist a friendly carpet fitter and ask them to drop off the old carpets they lift up and use that to cover up the other patches and then work on each of them when you have time.

To be honest I dont think its as bad as you think. I have learned the rotavator makes life harder as it chops up the weeds rather than digs them up. I know what you mean about the ground being solid. I have become adapt at trying things I have made use of all sorts of containers while we were working on the soil. I used builders bags(you know the big 1 ton ones) filled with soil to grow potatoes, carrots, parsnips etc).

We are 3 years on and I have found the first beds we did are much easier this year to prepare, although as the plot is surrounded by frm land it does suffer from weeds I just have to keep on top of it.

Hope the above helps, please think carefully before spraying with anything as I dont think it will work quick enough for you to plant this spring anyway.

[TPeers]

My best suggestion is try your local scouts!

They may not officially do a bob-a-job week anymore but you could ask if they would come and help you weed everything for use of say 1/2 a bed for the season to get their gardening badges?

The cost to you would be a couple of rounds of squash, a horde of reasonably polite boys on three or four weekends and 1/2 a bed left for them rather than loosing three to the battle of the year!

It can't hurt to ask! (My Brownies and I are probably too far away to be much help - sorry)

Terry

Brown Owl, 11th Purley (St Swithun's) Brownies

[jacob marley]

i would strim the rubish of then rotavate let it grow into a nice lush green growth then is the time to spray it and the spray works properley glysophate costs about £35 from agriculural outlets if theres one neer you bet of luck

[rustylady]

Don't rotovate if you have perennial weeds such as couch grass. A new plant will grow from every little tiny bit of root that is left in the ground and a rotovator makes lots of little bits of roots. Dig by hand what you can manage to plant and cover the rest with old carpet or cardboard. I took on my plot 18 months ago and it was shoulder high in brambles and docks. It is now manageable, though I still get a few bramble suckers. They are reasonably easy to pull up and the ground is cropping well.

[Jardiniere]

My garden waa full of brambles and couch grass but just digging and weeding seems to have worked....have potatoes in newly dug soil this year and waiting to see how much crap re-emeges. i believe tho i am no expert that brambles hate being disturbed so disturb them as much as you can .
i wont use weedkiller of any variety.

[muckdiva]

This isn't advice, 'cos I don't have a clue if it will work long term, (hope so) but I am in the same situation as you regarding a plot with loads of perennial weeds. I have agonised about what to do, but realistically I don't have time to dig and pull out little bits of root, so i've decided to go with the no dig and thick mulch approach, after reading about this method in the last few issues of HDRA's members magazine. (If you take a look at the thread LJ amalgamated about Supersprout's allotment, that has very similar advice, and brilliant photos).

The last in the series of these no dig articles in the HDRA mag dealt with perennial weeds, and yes, it's true that some such weeds will eventually push up through the mulch, but apparently they are significantly weakened, and you can usually get a great deal of the root out fairly easily, eventually getting rid of them by starving them of light.

I started the no dig thing in my garden last summer, and this spring a very few nettles and buttercups (of which there were masses before I put down the mulch) have worked their way through some of the thinner areas of topping, but, they pull out really easily and the root seems to be more or less intact, and it's been hardly any work to maintain the veg beds using this method. I'm a convert.

Maybe it would be worth trying a small area this way to see how it compares against the dig/rotavate/glyphosate way...?

[Norm]

Hi OWG, I'm with Snadger on this one. Two points. Firstly, Roundup is about £20 for a gallon - Wilkinsons do the same stuff for £6 and B & Q for about £8. It's all glyphosate and what you're paying for with roundup is a name and a pretty bottle.
Secondly, let the invasive little ******** grow a bit, then hit it with the weedkiller or you'll be there all year trying to pull the stuff out and you'll be there NEXT year doing the same again - ad infinitum, ad nauseam

[Squirrel]

Did this sort out the couch grass too MuckDiva?

[muckdiva]

Did this sort out the couch grass too MuckDiva?

Can I tell you in the Autumn, Squirrel

[Paulottie]

OWG

A fork is the thing to use to get rid of couch and bindweed. Digging is part of veg growing & + you get fit. Even if you want to go with raised beds and no-dig systems etc. it will all be hopeless and soul destroying if you don't get the nasties out first.... they will come back through or in from the edges.The good news is gets easier year by year. GYO is a long haul thing. Forget about carrots this year; or grow some early nantes or paris market in buckets etc.

Yep, you can let it all resprout and hit it with weedkiller but that takes time (and money) and its toxic. I would suggest you split the plot into managable chunks and set about getting the worst out, You already have the answer, invest in a bit of mypex or similar instead -it is worth using quality-as it lasts. You can then plant brassicas beans spuds etc through it. for a couple of years. For the unused land just keep it covered with dpm, carpet or cardboard. OK some will poke through but a lot will be weaker and it will be much easier to pull the roots out. Then start mulching- don't worry you'll soon clear it.

[OverWyreGrower]

Thanks guys!

Have started to clear one of the beds already, by fork and hand. Pretty soul destroying until you stand back and look!

Once cleared, I'm going to cover with something (plastic/cardboard) and plant through it as much as I can.

We're going to clear the beds one at a time, but we've got some RoundUp in standby (yes, I know it's nasty and toxic).

Luckily, the beds are 7x3m, so one clear one should be able to have plenty of stuff on it, and can be planted up with green manure and left fallow next year.

I'm going to put some updated pictures on my other thread of our progress re fencing etc...

Thanks again for all your help! I'm off to find some old carpet!

[Peter]

Couch grass, I have had it on every plot I have taken on and that is six seperate sections.

The only foolproof method I have found is to spray when growing, leave till dead and brown, burn off with a gas roofers torch, leave till green and growing, repeat whole previous sequence as often as needed.

Short term, woven black plastic weed membrane or carpet (NOT foam backed) with stuff like Squash planted through strategicly cut slots will do A-1 without weeds.

It does not like being disturbed though, so potatoes are good as you really work the soil and the foliage shades the grass out.

It really looks like spilikins in the soil.

[Paulottie]

Sounds good owg, but i'm not sure about green (or any other manure, really) until you've got it pretty clean, thing is you need to dig it all in. That's fine with annual weeds but not the nasties. Ground shouldn't need to be fallow for a few years yet.

Peter's method sounds good for the bits you are not using yet and then cover them till you are. OK it is ugly for a year or two but then you are off and the whole thing becomes so much easier. the big thing is not to be disheartened.