permaculture

[binley100]

not sure if this is the right place for this but........
how would you describe permaculture and the main principles of it ? Can it be used as an excuse for growing random trees and letting weeds grow on an allotment?

[veggiechicken]

No! It's Perm(anent) Culture - not weeds unless they are those edible or useful plants which may be commonly regarded as weeds. Its a structured approach to planting up a plot, to maximise output with the minimum of intervention (this is my version and probably not the authorised interpretation). It utilises perennial planting wherever possible to replace plants which are sown annually.

[binley100]

So someone who has overgrown fruit trees that are covered in ivy at one end and some beds with veg in at t'other with wild flowers (weeds) inbetween is not really abiding by the main principles?

[veggiechicken]

I'd say they are calling it "permaculture" as a cop-out! Sounds as though you could also call that plot a nature reserve, or a wildlife garden or even, untended!.
There is also Forest gardening, where you plant in tiers, the tallest tree to the North, and descending in size the further you are towards the South. This is a way of packing in the most plants to maximise yield but the weeds in the middle would not be part of this scheme.

[Aberdeenplotter]

The weeds in between bit and the ivy on the fruit trees isn't permaculture, that is neglect . Found this site with a few definitions About Permaculture -- Definitions

[taff]

not really no. what they're doing is trying to find an excuse for not keeping their plot in order.

[zazen999]

I'd get them to explain what the difference between their untidy plot and permaculture is. After all, you can't eat ivy. And fruit trees still need pruning [esp with permaculture so that you get the better harvest and less disease].

[taff]

permaculture doesnt mean let your plot run wild as it please. It means plant according to principles where most of your harvest is from perennial trees/bushes/plants, with an area you plant in every year for annual veggies/flowers.
It can be planted as 'zones' where the most intensive work is located nearest, the trees etc at the back.
Ivy covered trees and couch grass masquerading as a wildflower meadow is not permaculture.

[I had some time and energy so I extended my reply ]

[pauco]

So some (Zones) weed ridden, others just let grow wild, sounds interesting


paul.

[binley100]

The plot I'm thinking of belongs to a chap who is meant to be a member of the RHS and very knowledgeable . The far end has loads of trees (not necessarily fruit) that are very tall and covered in ivy . People have tried talking to him but to no avail .....I'm arming myself with some knowledge ready for when we try again ...

[veggiechicken]

So some (Zones) weed ridden, others just let grow wild, sounds interesting


paul.

Sounds inappropriate for an allotment but just fine in my garden!

[veggiechicken]

I'm a member of the RHS but it doesn't make me an expert! Are the tall trees on his allotment plot? Did he plant them or were they there when he took it on? Maybe they are too tall for him to prune - I have trees like that. In other words, if he planted them, he should maintain them, or if he didn't, maybe he thinks he's stuck with them or likes to see birds in them. Whatever, it doesn't sound like permaculture to me!

[binley100]

Yes they're on his plot . some are fruit trees but he's no chance of harvesting as they are way too tall . The whole lot casts shade on the plot next door much to their annoyance . I think some of the trees must have been there before him but he has planted more. He's a bit of a strange character , I've tried the good day bit when he's walked past but not much response.

[veggiechicken]

Does he say that he gardens using Permaculture principles? Or is this what others are saying? Just wondered where the idea had come from, if he doesn't talk much to others.

[binley100]

He's had a few heated discussions with various people about his plot .......