Fair Allotment Rent

[Dom2599]

Dom, try to get in touch with Mr Mullins at Eastleigh. Find out what exactly he did and see if you can get copies of his papers. make sure your Council knows about Mr Mullins winning his case in the County Court at Southampton. I'd love to be afly on the Council chamber wall when you drop that on them from a great height.

Email sent to the general secretary of Eastleigh Allotments, hopefully he will forward it on

[Aberdeenplotter]

Dom, if your Council is as bloody minded as mine, you may well get to the stage where you don't sleep at night. I'm not worried about the outcome of my dispute, in fact quite the contrary, but I'm terrified I've missed something important, so I'm worrying at it around the edges,checking everything from every angle. Learning loads about the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 at the same time. How many of you were aware that if there is any dispute about interpretation of a term in a contract, it is the interpretation in favour of the Consumer that carries most weight. I think that's a huge consideration in my situation.

[Dom2599]

Dom, if your Council is as bloody minded as mine, you may well get to the stage where you don't sleep at night. I'm not worried about the outcome of my dispute, in fact quite the contrary, but I'm terrified I've missed something important, so I'm worrying at it around the edges,checking everything from every angle. Learning loads about the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 at the same time. How many of you were aware that if there is any dispute about interpretation of a term in a contract, it is the interpretation in favour of the Consumer that carries most weight. I think that's a huge consideration in my situation.

AP, they are very bloody minded, labour heartland unfortunetly. They have always done what they wanted come what may. I have had a brief look at them regs, im more wondering what i do when they stop responding to me....i need to get as much info as possible, yesterday i was going to give it all up, now i feel like i want to get even. I have to be careful as one of my fellow plot holders wife is the local labour mayor, so im sure he will be letting them knkw what im up to.

[Dom2599]

Had an email from my councillor this morning, they discussed the percentage increase, and probably agreed them, he did state that he raised the Harwood and Mullins cases with the legal team, he said they will seek further legal advice and report back. I have also been in touch with people i know on other sites within the borough and the feed back i have is that they are not happy, i have advised them all to send emails/letters to the council, whether they do or not is another matter.

We have a large percentage of people on 'half rents' that dont seem too bothered, i have pointed out that even on half rent the 20.99% increase still applies to them as well....i'm all right jack comes to mind.

[Dom2599]

Hi AP, from the way he spoke to me yesterday, they know they are pushing the boundaries, but are quite willing to do this. I have FOI'd them with reagrds to the other recreational stuff, with things like sports halls, swimming pools, the council dont actually run them, they are run by an orginisation called Tees Valley Leisure......however, i will ask them about the golf courses, football pitches etc and see what comes back.
The councillor did tell me that the Harwood case i sent them had been passed to the councils solicitor to look at, so i think i may have hit a nerve somewhere.
I have asked some of the other plot holders for a meeting on saturday to give them an update, however, when it comes to the fight i think most will fade away

AP,

I've had a look at the FOI's i have sent last year, this is the one i had back with regards to other leisure activities compared to alotment rents;

Can you please supply me with information on the % increase with
regards to the following leisure activities from 2001 - 2011/2012
inclusive;

1) Allotment rent increases

2) Swimming Baths admission increases

3) Sports hall increases (including, but not limited to, gym
admission, badminton admission, tennis admission, squash admission
etc)

The response;

I can confirm we do hold the information requested in item 1 however our records only go back to 2004.

2004 - 3%
2005 - 3%
2006 - 3%
2007 - 10%
2008 - 5%
2009 - 5%
2010 - 5%
2011 - 18%

I can confirm we do not hold the information requested in items 2 and 3, however, in order to be helpful and to assist you I can advise that this information is accessible by contacting Tees Valley Leisure limited.


Maybe i should send a FOI to the council and ask them what leisure activities they actually do run....

[VirginVegGrower]

Our allotments are £28 for a less than full size plot and £35 for a full one. That hardly seems fair to me. Surely if you run a half plot, it should be 50% of the full plot rent?!

[Alison]

Our allotments are £28 for a less than full size plot and £35 for a full one. That hardly seems fair to me. Surely if you run a half plot, it should be 50% of the full plot rent?!

I'd not agree there as it still take the same level of admin etc to sort a half sized one to a full sized one so the smaller one should be more per area than the large one really to factor that in.

[VirginVegGrower]

I'm leasing land not funding a secretary ^^^

[Aberdeenplotter]

Alison, The law in England says Land let by a council under the Allotments Acts, 1908 to 1931, for use as an allotment shall be let at such rent as a tenant may reasonably be expected to pay for the land if let for such use on the terms (other than terms as to rent) on which it is in fact let:.

It doesn't say at such rent plus a bit to cover the admin costs.

[Aberdeenplotter]

VVG, my bill is in the post

[Alison]

I'm leasing land not funding a secretary ^^^

Alison, The law in England says Land let by a council under the Allotments Acts, 1908 to 1931, for use as an allotment shall be let at such rent as a tenant may reasonably be expected to pay for the land if let for such use on the terms (other than terms as to rent) on which it is in fact let:.

It doesn't say at such rent plus a bit to cover the admin costs.

Yes but it order to rent land part of your payment goes to the administration of that, I don't have a problem with that at all, it is entirely reasonable (and a real cost) and therefore totally in line with the requirements. I do have a problem with excessive increases if they are not appropriate or fair which is the main point of the thread.

[Aberdeenplotter]

Alison, if the reasonable rent is set, it is unreasonble to seek an extra payment to cover admin. The admin cost come out of the reasonable rent. I think you will find reasonable to be a synonym of fair. I'm presently fighting a court case about this and have made it my business to find out. I may be fighting under different allotments legislation but the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations don't stop at the border and they do apply to allotments leases. A landlord is held to be a supplier and the tenant a consumer for the purposes of these regulations.

It's ludicrous to think that in VVg's case she could pay £56 for two half plots and someone else just pay £35 for a full sized plot. i'e the same area of ground

[Dom2599]

It doesn't say at such rent plus a bit to cover the admin costs.

When i spoke to the councilor the other day he said to me that the council provides 30K to cover the maintenance costs of all of the boroughs allotments and another 20K for the 'admin lady'

[Alison]

It's ludicrous to think that in VVg's case she could pay £56 for two half plots and someone else just pay £35 for a full sized plot. i'e the same area of ground

But her post says that it's "£28 for a less than full size plot and £35 for a full one" which is what I said seemed reasonable, where does £56 come into it? Don't know if the £28 is half sized or more but even if it's half sized that seems fine.

[Dom2599]

I have just received an email from the general secretary at Eastleigh Allotment Association, he has kindly forwarded on my email to Mr Mullins, so fingers crossed