carpet as weed suppressant

[Protea]

Recieved a round-robin letter from the parish council regarding our allotment site today. In the letter they mentioned that they weren't happy with people using carpet and underlay as weed suppressant and that it all had to be removed by September

It took us ages to find all the carpet we've been using and we had planned to cut it into strips to lay down the centre of the plot as a path - i guess we can't do that now (but will the council offer to mow our path for us? oh no!). We only have an electric mower and our cordless strimmer is next to useless on anything other than grass (our pathways and plot in general is quite weedy).

I know the reasons for not using carpet but to be honest i used it last year, my crops grew fine, tasted fine, i'm still alive and so is the soil (lots of insects and worms indicating healthy soil balance).

We can't afford to buy lots of weed suppressant membrane, or woodchips, or even a petrol mower/strimmer, and although i'm planning on growing some over-wintered cover crops, its unlikely i'll be able to cover the whole plot.

Aarrgghhh! sorry! just wanted a rant!

[bubblewrap]

The problem I have in using carpet is that grass & some weeds can grow on top of it. Can cause problems later if you forget where you layed it.
Previous owner of my lottie used carpet,it was covered in grass & difficult to dig out.
Once you have the weeds under control an hour or two a week with the hoe should keep it so!
My lottie is 300sq yards + & I use no other form of weed control.
I have 350' + of grass paths which I cut using shears!!

[Protea]

The problem I have in using carpet is that grass & some weeds can grow on top of it. Can cause problems later if you forget where you layed it.
Previous owner of my lottie used carpet,it was covered in grass & difficult to dig out.

We only really use it over winter to cover beds for early crops or areas we haven't had time to dig over (and weed!). We've never had grass or weeds growing on our carpet but maybe we don't leave it down long enough for this to happen?

[bubblewrap]

Sorry I did not intend to be rude the carpet on our lottie had been down for years (lottie unsed for 2 years at least) I still think grass paths are better,(yes they need cutting) at least hey are weed free.(& look very nice)

[OverWyreGrower]

Can you and other plot holders get together and ask the council to help you fund an alternative to carpet?

Maybe a bulk delivery of woodchip/mulch, or money towards weed-suppressant or a petrol mower/strimmer?

[Snadger]

I can just about understand why the council would be against carpets being used as a mulch on cropping areas but as a weed suppressant on permanent paths it shouldn't be a problem, surely?

Beaurocracy gone mad as usual!!

[rustylady]

What are their reasons for banning carpets? It may be worth asking. I know that synthetic carpets can release harmful chemicals as they rot down (they do eventually), but they are really good at suppressing weeds until you actually have time to dig the plot properly. Obviously, as soon as you have the plot under control you should dispose of the old carpet responsibly (maybe the Council will collect it for free??????)

[Protea]

release harmful chemicals as they rot down

This was the councils reason

As soon as you have the plot under control you should dispose of the old carpet responsibly (maybe the Council will collect it for free??????)

The council also saw using old carpet as a 'disposal' problem - although to my mind i'm recycling something that would have gone straight to landfill - i know it will eventually end up there when its too old to use on the plot but at least i'm eeking out more working hours!! I doubt our council would dispose of it for free

[Protea]

Can you and other plot holders get together and ask the council to help you fund an alternative to carpet?

Maybe a bulk delivery of woodchip/mulch, or money towards weed-suppressant or a petrol mower/strimmer?

Not a bad idea - i think i'll mention it the next time i see one of the committee members up there (if i can remeber who's who!), however its a huge site and they are already trying to improve the main track with hardcore so that we can get our cars down there without rutting the ground (lottie is in next village), so i think they'd be hard pushed to find the money

Sorry I did not intend to be rude the carpet on our lottie had been down for years (lottie unsed for 2 years at least) I still think grass paths are better,(yes they need cutting) at least hey are weed free.(& look very nice)

Don't worry - i didn't think you were being rude!

grass paths do look lovely, but my lottie was created out of a few massive plots so there were no permanent paths there - just bare soil (and weeds!). So now we have created permanent paths and there are more weeds than grass most of the time!

[pigletwillie]

I can see the benefits of using carpet but can also tell tales of the woe it causes in later years.

On our allotment site we have banned the use of carpet, partially because of the toxic chemical bit but mainly because it gets grown over and through by plants and weeds. You may have ideas about how you like your plot but if you ever move on, somebody may decide to change the layout and is met by 10 year old carpet that is a complete mare to remove.

I am still digging bits up from my plot, two years after removing the bulk of it.

We are fortunate that the council deposit bark chippings but you could also use cardboard and or straw which are both either free or very cheap to source and far greener.

[Protea]

somebody may decide to change the layout and is met by 10 year old carpet that is a complete mare to remove.

I am still digging bits up from my plot, two years after removing the bulk of it.

We are fortunate that the council deposit bark chippings but you could also use cardboard and or straw which are both either free or very cheap to source and far greener.

Can totally understand this, however i wouldn't leave the carpet down long enough for this to happen (and certainly not if/when we leave the plot!) but obviously can't say the same for others.

I have a question about the straw thing - how do you get it to stay put? Our site is exposed so pretty windy, especially over winter so i can't see a mulch of straw staying on the soil for very long at all!

When i re-read the councils letter i noted at the bottom about 'removing the 'unsightly' carpet before September......' i suspect it is the 'unsightly' aspect that prompted a lot of it as we're overlooked by a few houses

[muckdiva]

Protea after reading about the chemicals contained in carpets on various sites last year I would never use carpet as a weed suppressant.

Here is the link to Supersprouts allotment where she used loads of straw. My site is also very open so I don't know how you would keep the straw in place.

http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/gra...ead.php?t=5573

Ahh, LJ, an opportunity to thank you for amalgamating Supersprout's allotment info. I wanted to comment on the original thread, but it was closed, so I hope it's ok to do so here. I found Supersprout's pictures really inspiring, and am planning to give this appoach a go this year.

I have used carpet on my garden paths, but will probably replace it with membrane when the opportunity arises. I'm not sure about the chemical question - are the all wool ones as dangerous as the others?

When I want to keep straw in place, I find it helpful to damp it down and then bash it flat with the back of a spade or something so you get a straw mat effect. (Not sure if this will work in high winds tho.)

[Paulottie]

Beurocratic bullies

I don't use carpet on anything but compost heap but have certainly used membrane. I don't know how I'd have managed without it. ok... It's still unsightly; supports some weedgrowth (esp. buttercup and couch) the cheap stuff rips; and mypex frays leaving strands everywhere. But then you only need a couple of large squares to grow stuff through. I understand shoestring! but it's a pretty good investment. It would perhaps be cheaper to club together to buy a 100m roll? Within a year or two you'll have cleaned the site to a hoeing standard. I don't know if the PC would object to that, but you'd probably be on top of it by the time they got another resolution out! It all seems a little counter productive to me as a field of weeds isn't that beautiful but -hey ho.

We live in a village -NO sheds on lottie etc. When I started I was told "we don't like paths here!"
I thought they were all mad, but I am now seeing that the weeds do just grow back in from the sides. This of course relies on traditional plot methods and doesn't suit raised bed method. I've now got about two thirds of lottie without paths. For those paths I have used membrane and woodshavings (i'm a chippy tho!) and its now weed free enough for grass sowing but I am also considering chamomile.

If you do want to have paths then what about cardbord? that lasts a while, couldn't be cheaper or more available. I'm sure any small joinery firm would let you have some shavings to cover it up a bit

[Peter]

Membrane, wire netting, fruitcage plastic netting, all of them if left on the ground get covered up, protected from sunlight and thus hardly degrade at all. So when you start to dig you are ****ing annoyed to find them, 'cos they are never in a ncie little bundle, always spread out over at least 3' x 3'. Grrrrrr.

Lesson, don't use them as permenent layers, use them as movable re-usable mulches.

To counterbalance the "chemicals" everyone keeps mentioning in connection with carpets;

• Woven plastic membrane is made from chemicals, chemicals are also used to make it UV resistant.
• New carpet gives off volatile organic compounds, that's your new carpet smell. Greenpeace did a VERY good web article on this and they are not nice chemicals, if you have a new carpet ventilate well.
• Treatments and shampoos are chemicals, some benign, some not, steam cleaning should be chemical free, but will remove proprietry stayclean treatments.
• The "walking in stuff on your feet" argument is frankly spurious, unless your carpet came from someone who works for Mr Burns and comes home in his work clothes it isn't worth worrying about. When hoovering it the chemicals would get sucked up and blown through the hoover and the hoover operator might breathe them in .
• Never use foambacked carpet, regardless of what the foam is made of it breaks down into diddy bits and gets everywhere.
• Get a good all wool carpet that he been steamcleaned and you might even be organic, you'd certainly be recycling.

[Snadger]

I relayed my worries about straw being blown away if used as a mulch to Supersprout and she told me it wasn't a problem.
I garden on an exposed site and decided to initially try the straw mulch idea on my strawberry bed only. Surprise, surprise, the straw actually stayed put and is still there now!
All I am saying is that straw mulch seems to work and I intend using more of it later this year or next year. A lot of my beds have at present got a strawy manure as a covering and that way it gives a bit of body to keep the surface soil acting fauna busy!