Newbie - a choice of plots - established/newly dug

[nic73bay]

Hi all I have now been offered a plot after a 3 and half year plus wait. Yippee! I'm very excited to finally have space to grow!

I went to see the manager today and he suggested a 4 rod plot for me which someone has given notice on but is not quite yet available or there is a 5 rod completely new plot which have recently been created but literally is a square of earth recently dug from a field given over by the coucil. 5 rods is the maximum for new plot holders. Being a novice I'm not sure...

The appeal of the 4 rod plot is that is does have some established features, the lady giving it up mostly used it for her fruit cultivation. It would come with a number of fruit bushes, an apple tree, plum tree, currants, raspeberry canes, a strawberry patch another un-identified fruit tree (maybe apricots or nectarine - there weren't any fruits on it and I'm a novice!). There's an area of patio (ideal for shed?) and a number of other established plant/herbs such as rosemary.

It is very close to the site office, shop, car park, toilet and water tap. We would eat all of the fruits currently growing on the plot. My concerns are that it is smaller than average (but it will be mostly myself cultivating the plot) and whether this will long term be enough for a family of 2 adults and 2 young kids. We would like to grow plenty of veg too. There is a ditch one side of the plot that the manager said i could fence off from my youngest (2 and half year old). The other side is the main grass road/wide path. Just 2 plots attached at each short end. The lady who did have the plot would be opposite the other side of the road (don't know if this is a plus point or not tbh!).

The other plot is quite a bit further away, a full 5 rod, blank canvass that was recent dug out from a fallow area of ground given to the site by the council. It is literally bear earth so could design my own layout and have a bit extra land than the other. He did mention that there maybe small bits of glass, metal and brick on this one. Although the contractors were apparently good about removing larger bits.


What are your opinions on which plot would be the better option for me, as it has taken a long time to be offered a plot and I'm worried that the extra rod would make all the difference and I'll get it wrong and regret it? The existing planting would save a lot of money as we would plant most given a choice - possibly not the trees early on but I reckon a small apple tree would have sneaked in eventually. I'm worried whether it will be tricky to plant amongst the established fruit trees/canes/bushes - I only saw a few leeks being grown there but she also had another plot so could it be she didn't bother rather than found it impossible? I went away convinced the smaller one was best but ont sure now. I have to go to this area every week day as my daughter goes to the school next to the alotment site so can devote a fair amount of time, but I do work 15hrs per week too. Hope this info helps with your advice.

Nicola

[zazen999]

Hard to say without seeing it - if 5 rods is the max for newbies, do you get the option of increasing that after time?

Personally, I would go with the fruit and grow smaller amounts of quality food - rather than large amounts of bulk [like main crop potatoes and onions]. Then you can make jams, jellies, and all sorts of preserves for the family, as well as them having fresh fruit. Nothing quite like a warm plum straight from the tree on a summer's day.

[veggiechicken]

I'd choose the smaller fruit plot too. You can easily move the fruit bushes and strawberries if you want to change the layout. Even move the trees if they're not too big! If its in use you can start planting it immediately and it convenient to all the sites facilities including water and toilets and that could be useful if you have your children with you!
The new plot is an unknown quantity and may have broken glass in it - and who knows what else.
Also, if you prove yourself you may be able to have another plot, if you want it, as the previous lady has done.
Oops, nearly forgot, Hello Nicola and welcome to the Forum!!

[Cue the Toms]

Personally, I would probably go for the new plot as we don't eat that much fruit anyway but eat tonnes of veggies.... Although location is very important. It is critical to be near a water supply or at least within hosepipe reach to fill up water butts in my opinion.

The idea of a blank starting canvas would also appeal as long as the soil is workable and is not at the bottom of a slope. That's where the colder temperatures will be and will water log easily.

If the women that has given up the plot will be sticking her two penneth in every time she sees you that would drive me mad and end in tears (on her part).

Welcome and good luck with whatever you decide, I'm sure it will have been worth the wait for you.

Chris

[rustylady]

Welcome to the Vine Nicola. I would go for the established plot and maybe clear some of the area for veggies. Whereabouts are you by the way? If you add your location (nearest town) to your location it helps with advice.

[Feral007]

6 of one, and half a dozen of the other! I'd love the established trees, and since we grow things in groups together rather than a row of something then I'd just plant under the trees anyway!

But I would want to grow veg as well. I'm greedy I want to grow it all. Really you are the one who can decide what time you have to spend and do you enjoy planning something and implementing it from scratch as Chris said. Or would you feel happier with the established site?

Either way you've got it at the right time! You can harvest some fruit no doubt, and put in a few overwintering things, and plan what to do with the rest. Or put some stuff into the empty plot and then spend the winter planning it and getting it ready.
As long as water wasn't far away either has its merits. Oh and welcome!

[alldigging]

Established!

Especially if you've got kids - your time isn't your own.

Unless of course one is more shaded?

[nic73bay]

Wow, thanks for so many replies so quickly!

At the weekend I viewed it again, this time with the husband and kids... I think we are going with the more established plot as it is very close to everything and gives us the head start we may need.
On our second look it seems like the plot will have potential to move stuff around as the bigger trees (6ft max) are in the corners at one end. We think with a few positioned canes and bushes alongside some 'thinning out' of the same should give us enough space to grow enough veg for a while before we would outgrow it (excuse the pun)! I doubt we'll have room to grow maincrop potatoes but enough for the more expensive veg we eat regularly.

The lady is apparently going to pay for someone to weed it (and I think pick all the apples etc. - but hey ho at least it'll be nice and tidy) so should be able to pick keys up in a few weeks time.

Zazen999 - good point about increasing my holding later, I will double check but others have more plots but just need to check if it would be another 3 1/2 year wait!!!

Vegechicken - thanks for the advice I looked at the plot for the second time with a view to what could be moved, the plums are very young and spindly so have scope for moving, the more established ones are on perimeter corners. the rest are raspberry canes I could thin out, strawberries that I can maybe move (?) to free up a bed, and plenty of currants that i could decide to sacrifice a couple to free veg growing space if I need to.

Cuethetoms - we are nearby! We eat LOADS of fruit as well as veg, hence its appeal for us but I was/am concerned about 'bothering' from the previous plot holder - as I've decided to go for it I think I'm just going to be grateful for the advice she may offer for the first year or so and possibly have to deploy extreem diplomacy skills if my fears are founded in subsequent years! The manager said she was lovely but he's hardly going to tell me she's a dragon I guess!

Rustylady - thanks for the tips about looking for space for clearing and adding my location, I'm in Eastbourne, East Sussex (not far from cuethetoms I see) and have added this to my profile now

Ferral007 - I've gone with my gut instinct that as I'm so novice even if all my veg attempts fail at least I'll still be able to harvest some fruit, lol! Can you grow pretty much anything under trees (assuming it gets enough sun) or should I avoid certain things?

Alldigging - thanks for the tip about shade... when we looked again it was 11.30am and the only shade cast onto the plot was from the largest yet to be identified tree and that was only on to the patio area. I'm not sure how I identify which facing the plot is... I can only work it out if there is a house attached to one end lol, I assume its only an issue if it is walled/fenced or has something that woud cast shadow on it, like the tree. You're sooo right about the kids, judging how ragged my 2 year old left me today I think I've made the right decision!

When I get the keys I'll take some pictures and start the planning process - I may need a little hand holding for a while!!

[veggiechicken]

Sounds like a very wise decision, nic! Re the strawberries, you could use them as ground cover around the foot of your trees - serves two purposes then! Keeps down the weeds and frees up the space for something else.
As for planting under trees, a lot depends on how dense the foliage is, and hence how shady the ground beneath is. Most soft fruit is quite tolerant of a bit of shade. Get to know your plot first, before you move too much around. See where the sunniest spots are or the windiest!
We're all happy to hold your hand when you're ready, but don't ask CuetheToms, Chairman of the Sussex Nutters Club for help or he'll ask you to sign up! (I can safely predict that he will be along soon and will start insulting me!!) Its all in the best possible taste though!!!

[redser]

I'd jump at the established plot too. This lady has probably added to the soil fertility and conditioned it well over time. Could take a few years to catch up on that with a brand new plot.

[Cue the Toms]

Yay, another fine East Sussex specimen joins the fray.... Where about's in EB is your plot? I'm at Earwig Corner, on the Ringmer Road. I know your area very well. Good luck with the nosey old bat, make sure you keep her at arms length

VC. Apart from your accent, age and nutterage (is that a word?) I have never said anything bad about you. In fact I value your opinions and input very much, when I can be bothered to read them

Good luck Rusty, don't forget to join our nutters club. I need all the help I can get, especially as my social worker is on holiday this week and I've been left to my own devices

Chris

[Aberdeenplotter]

5 rods is a half plot. 4 rods is 20% smaller than a half plot. Make a list of pluses and minuses. The biggest plus is the bigger plot size but of importance also is the fact that you will be taking onnew ground. A crop of spuds the first year will set you up for the future as growing spuds help clean up the ground and adds to the fertility.


Fruit bushes take up a lot of space and those on the small plot may well be old and past their peak.

Go forth and prosper whatever you decide. I would go large

[Two_Sheds]

The established, fruity plot is a gift: I'd bite your arm off for it.

You can grow a lot in 4 rods if you are organised and keep every bit of ground planted up all year round.

[Two_Sheds]

A crop of spuds the first year will set you up for the future as growing spuds help clean up the ground and adds to the fertility.

This advice (potatoes clean a plot) always concerns me. AP you know what you're doing, but a lot of newbies take this advice literally and get disappointing results.

My neighbour has grown nothing but spuds for 2 years now, and doesn't understand why the couch grass is still there, and getting worse

Also, just wondering: how do spuds add to fertility? I thought they were a hungry crop and took a lot out of the soil?


Spuds are cheap to buy: fruit is relatively expensive. On a small plot I'd be growing the more expensive crops and buying my onions & spuds in the shops.


Sorry to differ

[Farmer_Gyles]

if it was me, i'd choose the 4 rod plot too .... taking on a plot and maintaining it is quite a lot of work .... nothing particularly difficult, but it does take time .... 4 rods with a lot of fruit is a pretty good starting point .... you can get quite a lot from a small space .... with time and experience, you'll get more and more ....

my whole fruit and veg patch at home is about 30ft x 35ft .... i grow veggies on part of that measuring 26ft x 10ft, with a couple of paths across it .... i have a greenhouse which is mainly for seedlings and tomatoes (only one tom left this year due to blight) .... i have a lot of spuds in sacks and salads grow in patio pots .... we haven't bought any veg for a few months, apart from things that haven't grown this year (celery, peppers, tomatoes etc) .... we can feed 3 of us quite easily and we have LOADS of courgettes and beans in the freezer ....

we'll be growing through the winter too, two crops per year .... spuds will come up soon and leeks will go straight in .... loads of kale and broccoli to plant out soon .... winter onions are being started off in pots today and will plant out in 2 weeks time when the last summer onions come up ....

so definitely take the 4 rod plot .... then get some bits started at home ready to plant out in a few weeks time ....