rotavating weeds

[WendyC]

Just watched allotment DVD and one chap was digging and sieving! After 4 years he will have sieved the whole plot.

[Currysniffa]

\o My names Chris and I use a rotavator and I'm happy to do so... But I get my weeds out first by going through my plot with a garden fork then I winter dig and cover some beds with manure and some with my compost. I use my rotavator on the manured beds in spring.

I think its too easy to say you should never use a rotavator. Most of the old chaps (70-80 year olds) on my allotment site use them because winter digging is to much for them now. So I'd say YES to responsible rotavating and NO to rotavating as a quick fix.

[mrgrower]

I found out today that if you rake soil that had couch grass in when it's wet you can get alot more of it up but it's heavy work.

[mothhawk]

...my thinking is, when you dig a bed over you hand pick the weeds out, but if you rotavate you still go through and hand pick the weeds out afterwards so is there much difference? (using slashers not tilling blade)

But if you rotavate then hand pick, you're working the bed twice, because you'll still have to use a fork to turn the soil to find all the roots, so at the cost of a little time, why not save the expense of hiring/buying a rotavator and fuel, and avoid tiller pan, and use muscle power.

Also (and I'm speaking as one who has never used a rotavator) there must be a temptation to crack on and do the entire plot, then stand back and think, hey that looks OK, and put off sifting through to remove all the roots because it's a big area all at once. If done by hand, you COMPLETELY clear one patch at a time, as much as you can do in one go, and you can really see where you have cleared when you come back to it again.

[Two_Sheds]

If I had to do it again, I would probably start by rotavating the lot and then covering it up. Then I could go over it carefully with the fork

The easier option is to cover first ~ this weakens all the weeds by blocking their light. After at least 6 months, the ground will be surprisingly easy to dig (the worms have done a lot of the digging for you), and any remaining weeds come out a lot more easily

Most of the old chaps (70-80 year olds) on my allotment site use them [rotavators] because winter digging is to much for them now

Then there are the no-diggers who do neither. We put our energy into mulching instead of digging

[binley100]

Winter digging can also be bad for your soil ......a lot of people do it just cos it was traditional and I suspect a way of keeping warm in the winter. It can increase nutrients being leached out.
Mulching, covering and green manures much more beneficial ....
I'm in favour of getting up close and personal with any weeds like couch etc , looking them in the eye and making them to fork off ......

[snakeshack]

have just "invaded "the plot next to mine which the council says is "in cultivation"and hasn't seen a spade in over 20 years.started by slashing down the virgin rain forest like 8 ft high brambles and cutting down and digging out the ash and blackthorn growing amongst them.attempted to rotavate the entire plot only to find a layer of black horticultural plastic buried 2-4 ins deep over more than half the plot,the rotavator either bounces off as there is solid clay beneath or tangles the tines.
I have now dug about half the plot by hand,but will be rotavating to break up the lumps before covering with cardboard and manure and planting spuds,I strongly suspect marestail however as my current plot is infested and will be pulling as it appears.I am under no allusions as to the difficulty of removing it and wage a constant battle on my origional plot.
at least the council is correct........it's now under cultivation

[zazen999]

Winter digging can also be bad for your soil ......a lot of people do it just cos it was traditional and I suspect a way of keeping warm in the winter. It can increase nutrients being leached out.
Mulching, covering and green manures much more beneficial ....
I'm in favour of getting up close and personal with any weeds like couch etc , looking them in the eye and making them to fork off ......

i think alot of people winter dig because they grow in rows not beds; and thus walked over half their plot all year and so have to dig out the weeds because the soil is so compacted in between. Those of us who grow in beds and never walk on the soil should have an easier time trying to get any weeds up as the soil isn't so compacted.

[bubblewrap]

My advice is if you are talking over a plot and it is covered in grass is don't rotavate.
As a lot of grass grows from the roots (especially cooch grass) all you are doing is spreading the roots and all you will get is more grass

Cooch grass can grow from a piece of root 1" long and cooch grass root can be over three feet long rotavate and all you are doing is chopping longer roots into smaller pieces of viable root.

If your plot is relatively weed free then by all means rotavate.

[Newton]

I own a rotorvater but have not used it since rotorvating some of my plot when I first got it. Lack of knowledge v lots of knowledge now thanks to helpful grapes.

This comes up time after time. I will not rotorvate again and I now have raised beds where I am no longer digging. I am mulching and hand weeding.

I have just completed the removal of some autumn raspberries which were not productive. I had left them for two years but couch had got a hold of them.

The rotorvator has NOT been used. digging was the only option.........for me.

For me it is common sense prevailing following research and accumulated knowledge........

The areas I did rotorvate initially which are now raised beds were couch free at the time. They still are now. They are also now raised beds with bark paths between. The rotorvating has done no long term harm there.......but I will not rotorvate them again.......even though it gives you lovely black fluffy soil. And no worms!

Anyone want a mantis for £150?

[alldigging]

have just "invaded "the plot next to mine which the council says is "in cultivation"and hasn't seen a spade in over 20 years.

Had you shown the council what it looked like?

Are there no waiting lists on your site to push the council into taking back unworked plots?

[Two_Sheds]

Those of us who grow in beds ...have an easier time trying to get any weeds up as the soil isn't so compacted.

That's so true. At school, the horsetail & couch infested beds were dug over once, to get as many roots out as I could.
Now any weeds that reappear are eased out with a handfork: they come out easily because the soil is so loose

I now have raised beds where I am no longer digging. I am mulching and hand weeding

I'm glad it's working for you. Some people are scared to try something new, they don't want to think they've been doing it wrong all these years.
It's not "wrong" to dig or to rotavate, necessarily, it's just not the only way, and it's not the easiest way in the long run, if you're creating more problems than you solve.

Up our site, a newly rotavated plot was all lovely & brown & bare one week, and is now covered in green weeds, absolutely smothered. The guy now has to hand weed it after all

[taff]

I single dug the beds 4/5? years ago, removed any couch grass/bindweed/perennial roots.
Yesterday I pulled out a dandelion that had been hiding in one of the beds amongst the limnanthes, the root was over a foot long, but i pulled it out by hand.

That's how lovely your soil will be with no dig mulching, and digging it once [no rotavation]

[Mikey]

I haven't voted as there wasn't the response I wanted to give. I wouldn't rotovate, I've had enough problems trying to remove bindweed with hand digging, had I rotovated it would have been a lot worse.

I've always autumn dug my beds and turned the soil up on end to allow it to break down over winter. I've done this mainly out of tradition and methods handed down by generations, but also as I've found that when we've had a decent winter then the slugs on my plot are far fewer the following year when the soil is exposed rather than covered.

[snakeshack]

have spoken to the council on 3 occasions including meeting one of their staff on site,have applied for the plot twice by e-mail (their preferred method)have also reported the other 6 uncultivated plots as empty ,the council says there are 2,I am also the site rep and update them regularly.I decided to invade after 4 years of trying to get this plot by conventional means.the council surveyed the site 18 months ago to re-mark plots but still has only allocated the two they consider spare and I have helped the new allotmenteers clear them.I eventually came to the conclusion that I either took it on for basic staples,like spuds or pumpkins and got something from it or spent the rest of my life beating back the fast growing and invasive bramble from one side of my plot.
If I am asked to give it up I will hand it over like a shot .I just wanted to see it usefully cultivated,the council man I met on site seemed to think it was beyond redemption.
And yes there is a waiting list I would love to see all the plots cultivated but the council will not listen.