Animal manure vs Green manure - which is best?

[Philthy]

I have a semi-constructed plot, marked out for three narrow raised beds, each at 5m x 1m with path inbetween. I started digging it 2010. 'Summer' 2011 and last year the project had to be put on hold due to the abysmal weather. The few things I managed to plant either didn't grow or were annihilated by slugs. Anyway, hopefully this year I can get back on track.

I understand autumn is the best time for digging and manuring, so that winter frosts can improve soil structure, and nutrients can be incorporated. There is a brief window to carry out this task in spring, but with the disadvantage of the ground perhaps not having settled enough by the time you come to sow / plant for the year.

My understanding of green manures, is that their uses are as a way of 'resting' spare ground between crops, so that it isn't taken over by weeds, and when sown in autumn, the plants absorb leftover nutrients from the soil and effectively hold them over the winter. The plant is then dug back in the following spring and acts as a conditioner.

I wondered which of these manures was the better choice. And also, if you wanted to keep the plot going through the winter, for example with summer sown Kale, that leaves no time for manuring with either method...?

Many thanks

[alldigging]

Cost - varies - some places give muck away, others charge for delivery. Seeds cost initially but some can be left to seed and collect them...

Weight - packet of seeds very light. Muck very heavy.

Smell - seeds don't smell, plants don't smell, muck does.

Bulk. Instant from muck, plants take longer.

Effort - muck more hard work. Seeds easy.

Time - muck needs to be moved but instant and at the time of your choosing. Seeds take time to grow.

[Newton]

Very succinct reply AD.......hadn't thought of it that way.........

[Two_Sheds]

My understanding of green manures, is that their uses are as a way of 'resting' spare ground ..The plant is then dug back in the following spring

That's one way of using them.

I grow them (annual green manures: limnanthes, buckwheat, phacelia, caliente mustard) all year round, all over my plot. I don't dig them in ~ I don't dig anything in. I cut them roughly with secateurs and leave the choppings on the soil surface, as a mulch. Mulches suppress weeds and keep moisture in the soil, and increases the worm population. Digging in destroys worm tunnels.

I only remove the green manures when I need the space for planting a crop.

I also line the edges (outside) of my beds with a more permanent GM: alfalfa. It has deep roots and lives for several years. I treat it, and comfrey (Bocking 14) as permanent perennials, cutting their leaves as needed for mulching.



I've never used horsemuck or FYM, ever. I've had an allotment for 16 years now.

[Philthy]

Two Sheds,

What led you to follow a no-dig programme for your plot? Do you fertilise in spring with something like fish, blood & bone, or rely solely on your green manures?

[Newton]

And don't the GMs take nutrients needed by the veg....? I would like to know more? Is there a book TS or will you write one?

[taff]

Use all of them, as many and as much as you can get, because you'll never have enough of any type of manure, green or otherwise.

[taff]

The GMs might take some nutirents, but as in the case of comfrey for example, they're bringing more to the pot than they take. If you dig them all back in, they'll give it all back anyway.

[binley100]

and if you use horse/cow manure you need to test it to make sure its not contaminated with aminopryalid ......

[Two_Sheds]

What led you to follow a no-dig programme for your plot?

A variety of things:

- bad back, neck & shoulders
- laziness

then I started reading up to see if I could find a way to garden without the heavy digging & lifting. Found Charles Dowding then Sepp Holzer and One Straw Revolution. I thought about nature, and forests: how huge trees grow and produce nuts/fruit without ever getting "dug", just reliant on annual mulches (from leaf fall and the poop of passing animals).
Started using the no-dig methods I'd read about, to see if it would work. It did, so I continued.

Last year I started "One Straw" because my compost bins were always full ~ and I was just amazed at how quickly that improved my soil.

Do you fertilise in spring with something like fish, blood & bone, or rely solely on your green manures?

Yes, I sprinkle BFB when I plant stuff out, then every 6 weeks, just a light sprinkle.
I feed when I water stuff (which is only if things are drooping), adding in a slosh of comfrey tea.

And don't the GMs take nutrients needed by the veg....? I would like to know more?

No, the GMs create nutrients via photosynthesis and the uptake of minerals in the soil. When you cut them and they rot, they give that nutrient to the soil for other plants.

There may be some "robbing" going on if you analyse it, but I just use my eye, and I've never noticed anything suffering from being grown closely with anything else.

Books? There probably are some, and green manures are covered in lots of general gardening books, particularly the no-dig ones. btw, I treat weeds, flowers & dead plants as "green manures". All of them get chopped & dropped, onto the surface and left as a mulch


I'd recommend both of these, highly:

Sepp

One Straw pdf

[bojangles]

I was thinking of attempting no dig once I've got the bilndweed under some sort of control!!! I know I will never get rid of all of it also I have courch grass sp?? So would it be possiable to do a no dig with such nasty weeds?? At the moment Im digging over the plot as Im am complety behide due to weather like everyone else. i have now knock the idea of getting a rovatller as I like my worms to carry on helping me!! Plus I think Ive got enough blindweed and cough grass!!

[Two_Sheds]

you have to get the perennial roots out first.



btw, it's BINDweed, not BLINDweed, lol. Because it binds (ties) itself around other plants

[treepixie]

I tried green manure on my raised bed, sowed the seeds and the birds ate them all, still at least they had a good feed !!

[veggiechicken]

A guide to Green Manures, Published with Garden Organic can be downloaded at https://www.cotswoldseeds.com/seed-i...-green-manures

[horticultural_hobbit]

I've utilised both. Chicken pellets, FYM, and now some horsey poop, as well as some fenugreek.

At least with the fenugreek, that which ma doesn't eat helps the dirt. Stupid squirrel that invaded Dad's shed, ate my clover and grazing rye. I hope it choked to death.