Yet another new allotmenteer - with a soil question

[Penny Dreadful]

Hi all,

What a fab forum. I'm learning more with each read.

After about 5 years on a waiting list we've finally got an allotment, and, like many newbies, I'm expecting to be winning country shows this time next year (joke)

Our new plot is overgrown, to say the least. I'm sure it will be fine once we've applied agent orange and shifted the lions and tigers that are highly likely to be roaming around in the undergrowth (seriously, it's far worse than I thought it would be - how can sites get like this when there's a massive waiting list? I'd assumed that the council would have evicted at a much earlier stage)

Anyway - to my question. The soil is apparently very clay, with a tendency to some extreme water logging. Does anyone have any suggestions for specific fruit/veg we should be concentrating on for this type of plot? In an ideal world, when we've killed the lions and tigers, we'd like to concentrate on mostly fruit as we make our own wine. Happy to consider courgette and turnip wine though, if need be

Thanks in advance for any advice

[Bigmallly]

Welcome to the vine Penny, try and get as much organic matter into the soil as you can. Once you've got rid of the lions & tigers cover the plot with cardboard and plant through that. That should suppress the weeds & eventually rot down into the soil. Clay is supposed to be a good medium for growing so you should be able to grow most things. Hopefully someone with similar growing conditions will be able to advice more.

[veggiechicken]

Hi Penny and welcome. Don't worry about the lions and tigers - their poo is excellent for deterring cats - big cats
By fruit, I'm guessing you mean soft fruit like raspberries and blackcurrants. Rhubarb makes a great wine too.
As Bigmallly said, cover the ground with cardboard to suppress the weeds - though if they're really high you may want to strim off the top growth first. Don't rotavate whatever you do - it'll make the problem worse.
Once the cardboard is down, plan where you want to plant your fruit. Unless you buy potted plants, bare root plants are best planted during the dormant season - late autumn & winter. Cut holes through the cardboard, chuck in some compost if you have some, and plant your fruit bushes.
That's what I'd do anyway - someone a bit more sensible may be along soon with a better idea
Most importantly, enjoy it

[Greenleaves]

Welcome Penny, I hope you enjoy both the vine and your new plot. Tigers and Lions will certainly help the fertility of your soil.

in additional to BM's sound advice I would add sharp sand to the soil to allow slightly better drainage by opening the soil structure. Clay soils when dry can become very hard and this not only hinders plants it again causes drainage issues.

As I was so slow in typing VC' s advice as well

[Penny Dreadful]

Greenleaves, Veggiechicken and Bigmally, thanks all,

I've been reading about the cardboard covering approach, so it's good to hear that people think that might work. We'll definitely have to strim first. I'm talking weeds that are 4-5 feet high in places. It's a complete wasteland.

Good to hear the advice not to rotovate - I'd read about why that might be a bad idea in terms of furthering perennial weed growth, but my husband has been really pro-rotovate. I'll show him this thread - I think it's just cos his Dad's got one, and it's a boys and toys thing

Veggiechicken, have you tried rhubarb wine? According to another allotment holder on our site, rhubarb grows really well, but cos I can't stand the stuff (school crumble post traumatic stress disorder) I'd ruled it out. I'd never thought of its fermenting possibilities! Do you know if it's any good?

Thanks again all

[veggiechicken]

What weeds do you have Penny? Different weeds may benefit from uprooting raher than covering.
My husband used to make rhubarb wine - lots of it! It tastes nothing like school crumble - believe me!! If you can scrounge some rhubarb roots from your allotment neighbours, go for it. You can crop it earlier in the year than the other soft fruit so start your wine making early.

[snakeshack]

Rhubarb grows really well for me and I'm on London clay, the cardboard approach really worked for me topped with large quantities of manure. Adding sharp sand will open up the soil but you will need a 10 ton lorry load to make any difference and it will be expensive for the difference it makes as well as very labour intensive, better to add manure/ soil improver over cardboard and let the worms take it down. Raspberries , gooseberries,red currants and black currants all make good wine and are relatively easy.If you have a sunny spot a grape vine is worth a go for wine ( I have 2) even if they don't ripen for eating they make good wine. For something a bit more exotic you could try a kiwi berry or grow your own hops for beer. Don't worry about the lions and tigers if its that soggy the alligators will eat them all.if its really wet consider raised beds


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[Penny Dreadful]

What weeds do you have Penny? Different weeds may benefit from uprooting raher than covering.
My husband used to make rhubarb wine - lots of it! It tastes nothing like school crumble - believe me!! If you can scrounge some rhubarb roots from your allotment neighbours, go for it. You can crop it earlier in the year than the other soft fruit so start your wine making early.

I'm nowhere near knowledgeable enough to know what weeds are on there, unfortunately. Lots of long grasses, but no idea what's underneath that. There's a wheelbarrow and a bench hidden in the undergrowth, if that gives any indication as to how wrecked it is! I think we'll know very little til we strim back and see what we are dealing with

Thanks for the rhubarb wine info. We have a gorgeous old plum tree in our garden that gave us a glorious crop a couple of years ago and kept us in quite a lively red all that winter, but rhubarb had never occurred to me. I'll keep you posted!

[veggiechicken]

Take some photos of your plot - especially the big weeds and we'll have a stab at identifying them for you.
Its always good to take photos so that you can look back in a few months' time and see how much you've achieved. Post them up here too as we're a nosey lot

[Penny Dreadful]

Take some photos of your plot - especially the big weeds and we'll have a stab at identifying them for you.
Its always good to take photos so that you can look back in a few months' time and see how much you've achieved. Post them up here too as we're a nosey lot

I took a few photos when I went to view it but they're not close up enough for plant recognition. Captured the wildebeest well, though I'll take some better ones and post them here

Rhubarb grows really well for me and I'm on London clay, the cardboard approach really worked for me topped with large quantities of manure. Adding sharp sand will open up the soil but you will need a 10 ton lorry load to make any difference and it will be expensive for the difference it makes as well as very labour intensive, better to add manure/ soil improver over cardboard and let the worms take it down. Raspberries , gooseberries,red currants and black currants all make good wine and are relatively easy.If you have a sunny spot a grape vine is worth a go for wine ( I have 2) even if they don't ripen for eating they make good wine. For something a bit more exotic you could try a kiwi berry or grow your own hops for beer. Don't worry about the lions and tigers if its that soggy the alligators will eat them all.if its really wet consider raised beds

I'm not sure vines will work on a Sheffield hillside? Then again, it's a very sunny spot, so might be worth trying. Have you made wine from yours?

Thanks for the reinforcement re cardboard, that's definitely the approach we are going to take.

[snakeshack]

Has enough grapes for a couple of gallons last year came out quite dry but refreshing cold, vines are now3 years old and looks like this year will be a better harvest.


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[Floyd]

Hi Penny, whereabouts in Sheffield is your plot? Ours is at Woodhouse and there are several empty plots there which are now resembling Jurassic park! The council seem incredibly slow at dealing with anything allotment related.

[sparrow100]

Hi Penny, I'm on boggy London clay and so far pretty much everything grows stupendously well. Quinces are a long wait until you get the fruit (5 years), but quince brandy is the stuff of dreams. I managed to get a bag of properly mature quinces last year, infused into decent brandy and Bob's your proverbial. I've hidden it from prying eyes, it really is that good.

Rhubarb vodka is also very moreish.

If your plot's growing a decent crop of weeds it's a good sign that the soil is full of goodness.

[Penny Dreadful]

[

Hi Penny, whereabouts in Sheffield is your plot? Ours is at Woodhouse and there are several empty plots there which are now resembling Jurassic park! The council seem incredibly slow at dealing with anything allotment related.

Hi Floyd, we are over at Nether Edge. I have to say I was surprised at the state of it. Given there was a long waiting list, I'd have assumed the council would have acted quickly on wrecked plots. Ah...the mysteries of Sheffield City Council

Hi Penny, I'm on boggy London clay and so far pretty much everything grows stupendously well. Quinces are a long wait until you get the fruit (5 years), but quince brandy is the stuff of dreams. I managed to get a bag of properly mature quinces last year, infused into decent brandy and Bob's your proverbial. I've hidden it from prying eyes, it really is that good.

Rhubarb vodka is also very moreish.

If your plot's growing a decent crop of weeds it's a good sign that the soil is full of goodness.

Hi Sparrow, thanks for the drinks recommendations! Will give them a whirl, when we've tamed the wild jungle

[Bill HH]

The lions and tigers will keep the deer and rabbits away that's for sure.

I once made celery wine and celery does well in wet ground, just a thought.