New allotment questions!

[Emmeline]

Here is a photo of my new allotment (hopefully, just waiting for keys!)



It extends from the wooden stake on the middle left to the back fence, about 130sqm. It's quite overgrown, and another plotholder tells me there is couch grass and mare's tail and clubroot in there. However the plot was well maintained for many years by one person before he had to leave, since then several people have tried but given up due to the size of the task!

I have been doing some reading and my plan is to cover with weed suppressing membrane for now, and then slowly start digging the plot by removing a small bit of the membrane at a time until it has been dug over.

My questions are:
1. Do I dig in the grass/weeds after it has died back under the membrane or should it all go onto the compost heap?
2. Do I need to manure the ground and when is the best time to do this (it would have to be done after the digging so will not happen for a while)
3. Should I avoid all brassicas?My son likes broccoli and I would like to grow a few cabbages but don't need or want huge numbers of brassicas.
4. If I make raised beds, can I fill them with soil from the paths or do I need to buy compost (will be expensive hence would like to avoid!)

This is my plan for the plot - does it look achievable? Thank you all in advance

[Bigmallly]

Hello Emmaline & welcome to the jungle. Personally I would forget the weed membrane & cover the plot with cardboard. I would then plan any raised beds, paths etc. Put manure & chippings (paths) on top of the cardboard..........expect a variation of answers, just enjoy it & don't try doing too much at once.

[Emmeline]

Thanks for the welcome I would like to get cardboard but not sure I could find enough to cover the whole area! Not without difficulty anyway..

Can I put cardboard under the membrane?

[veggiechicken]

Try asking at bike shops, places that sell fridges etc,. Its free, it rots down and you don't have to remove it but can plant through it. Its a lot easier to manage that membrane. No point putting membrane on top of cardboard.

[muddled]

membrane is horrible, couch will grow through it in no time and then it's the devil's own job to get rid of either the couch or the membrane.
I use a floral wholesaler who have to pay to have their cardboard removed so are happy for me to take it. Maybe ask around at your local inustrial estate?
You could get some pallets while you're there

Hello by the way, and welcome

[Martin H]

I don't like the membrane either, probably because I've had to remove so much from my plot, left there by the previous owner, matted with couch grass roots. Cardboard is good because after a year it's gone and you'll find nice soil in its place.

1. If roots etc are dead then you don't have to remove them, but if you're digging or forking over the ground (which I would do at some point, a bit at a time) then I'd suggest taking them out as you go. In case they aren't quite dead, you know.

2. You could spread manure on top of the cardboard and plant potatoes in it in the spring. Make sure it's not manure from pasture that's been treated with herbicide though. Personally I don't use much manure, it's not necessary and besides I haven't got a ready (free) source.

3. Cabbages and purple sprouting broccoli are easy, I find caulis and green broccoli difficult. If you only want a few plants, you could get them from a garden centre in the spring (although seeds are cheap, easy and store for several years). You'll need to net the plants though or the caterpillars will get anything that the pigeons leave.

4. The plot has been worked before so the soil should be pretty deep. If I were going to the trouble of making edged beds then I'd dig out up to a spade depth on the paths and throw it on the beds, simultaneously lowering the one and raising the other. But unless your plot is prone to waterlogging, which I doubt because of the slope, then I'd personally not bother with raised or edged beds. Lots on here like them, though!

[Vince G]

Welcome and congrats on your new lottie.

As Mally says, you'll get a variety of answers. I'm from the "try and dig it all out" brigade. Although couch is very difficult to remove completely, it's very satisfying to carefully ease out foot long roots and know at least that bit isn't coming back. Horsetail you never get rid of completely - it weakens if you keep pulling it up, but it never dies, unless you use specific chemicals (which I did) but most folk prefer not to, you can work round it.

Little trick with brassicas. When you plant out the seedlings, stick a chunk of rhubarb in the planting hole, the club root virus doesn't seem to like it. There is a bit of clubroot at the allotment where we have our plot, but we've never caught it. Then water a couple of times during the summer with a can with a couple of scrunched up rhubarb leaves in it to "top up". I wouldn't water on leaves you will eat though - rhubarb leaves are toxic and although you'd need to eat several kilos of them to kill you, it might still give you a dodgy stomach.

Very impressed with the graphics on your plan by the way.....

Enjoy it!

[Greenleaves]

I cant add to the sound advice already given except enjoy you plot

[sparrow100]

If it does have horsetail on the plot (marestail is the aquatic version) do not dig it back in or add it to compost - it needs removing/burning/drowning or all you will do is spread it about and create more of a problem for yourself. The plot next to mine is riddled with it and it's got to the point where the tenant was moved and the plot is being covered for 2 years with thick black plastic in an attempt to check it without spraying.

If the ground has been unworked for a while it may well be in good condition nutrient-wise and you won't need to manure it all - you could just dig in a bit of rotted manure as you plant up, excepting carrots and parsnips. I definitely agree with others about covering ground that's not worked. It just makes life easier.

Clubroot is manageable - if you grow seedlings at home/in pots till they are a good size they can usually cope with it.

I have raised beds as my plot is clay, on a slope and boggy - it helps a lot in getting the soil drained in Spring for planting, though they do dry out faster. Using a bit of soil from the path areas does help.

Your plan looks good - but there is an awful lot of path. Personally I'd reduce that to get more planting space.

[Emmeline]

Your plan looks good - but there is an awful lot of path. Personally I'd reduce that to get more planting space.

Thank you all again - I am a real beginner so I am taking it all on board. I have already bought the membrane so will probably go with that to start with and cover any remaining bits with cardboard as the membrane won't be enough.

With the paths, should they be narrower? I was going for 8ft x 4 ft beds mostly so I don't need to step on them.

[Martin H]

4 feet wide is a good size for your beds, the exact length is less important although if you make them 20 feet or more you'll be tempted to step over the bed rather than walk round. But if all beds are about the same size it makes crop rotation easier, because (e.g.) the piece of netting that keeps the birds off the cabbages will fit whichever bed the cabbages are in this year.

Make the paths just wide enough so that you can kneel down without putting your feet in the bed behind.

For the first year, I wouldn't make firm plans until it's all ready for planting. You may find, as I did, that you will be driven by practicalities, e.g. cabbages ready to plant, better put them in the next bed that I finish. Once it's all under control you can make more permanent plans. For now, just work out what you're going to grow and how much of it, and keep records of what you did and how it turned out.

Have fun!

[Nicos]

You need at least a 2 ft wide path if you intend to push a wheelbarrow down them....a bit more is better on the main paths, but 2 FT will do.
Also, if they are narrower than that, it becomes harder to kneel down to weed of that's how you intend to weed/ sow.

4x8 beds sound a good size to me!

[sparrow100]

Thank you all again - I am a real beginner so I am taking it all on board. I have already bought the membrane so will probably go with that to start with and cover any remaining bits with cardboard as the membrane won't be enough.

With the paths, should they be narrower? I was going for 8ft x 4 ft beds mostly so I don't need to step on them.

Mine are 45-55cm wide for the side paths and the main path is 70cm wide. My beds are only raised 15cm (one width of decking) so I can still get a barrow along the side paths. Any taller and I wouldn't be able to. I can kneel to weed if I have to - my rear end gently resting on the bed behind me - but I tend to use long-handled tools to weed and only bend to pull out the greenery a few times. Part of that is due to dodgy joints and part because my plot is a magnet for red ants. And they HURT!

I've also found that I am trying to cram in as much as possible, and you can't grow in paths (I can't anyway, they are lined with thick membrane), though squash/oca/melons/potatoes will all flop over the edges.

4ft/120cm wide beds sound good to me - in my first year I just used the set-up I inherited and one of the beds was 150cm wide. It was really hard to plant/sow things in the middle.

[Bigmallly]

Just want to second Martins point about making the beds all the same size if possible. Then if you make a couple of cages out of timber & debris netting, you can just pop them on the Brassica beds as you rotate them. These are a couple I knocked up when I had my plot. All the beds were 25ft x 4ft 2". The cages were 8ft x4ft.

[the plumber]

i/m a believer in digging on new plots. if you have weeds as you say no amount of smothering will help. you have to get them out. then cover with manure.i/ts hard . and thats why other people gave up.plan for years ahead in your progress.and do little and often. as for clubroot. i/ve struggled for years and found raised beds. lots of lime. i now send for club resistant seeds .expensive but it works.i had no joy with rubarb wives tale. it/s a long journey you are on . good luck.