New field - Allotment project - Rotavate?

[Paulieb]

Just before Christmas me and my family recently bought a field (1.25acres) half of which will be and orchard and we are also planning an allotment area which will be in the region of 150 square metres (with perhaps half an acre left as grass).

This week’s dilemma is whether to rotavate or not.
I’ve read a lot about the question of to rotavate or not so am aware of the arguments against, but I just wanted to reconfirm my plan.

The original plan was to rotavate, and then erect 4ft rabbit fencing before planting. Now I think it’ll be better to not rotovate, but cover with cardboard (and dig over by hand as and when time allows). As this will take much longer initially would you guys agree that it’ll be worth it in the long run.

Would rotavating then covering with weed membrane be a worthwhile compromise? It ha been topped so is currently just turf but I'm fairly sure there is couch and nettles in there.

I have asparagus crowns, strawberries and raspberries to go in asap, plus fruit bushes, otherwise the plan is a range of most other usual crops which will be going in from March to April.

Thanks in advance.

[Kristen]

If the plot is basically just grass (in particular if previously grazed by animals, and maybe sprayed with selective herbicide whilst pasture?) then I doubt there will be much in the grass that will present a problem.

As its a large area with tractor access, presumably?, personally I'd have the local farmer plough it - the plough will bury the top inch or two (of "turf" and weed seeds) in the previous furrow, and give you a rough ploughed finish. If you can do that soon, and we get enough cold weather, the clods will break down well over the winter. Alternative is to then hire a mini-tractor rotavator and then use that to get it flat and with a tilth.

Thereafter you can cover with cardboard / membrane and plant through which will deal with the weeds.

Your Asparagus wants a really well prepared bed - that crop is going to be in there for 25 years - the bed needs to well manured and prepared first, and each crown planted on a bed of sand, so I wouldn't stint on that (its early to be planting Asparagus - are the plants in pots? if so they will hold a good couple of months yet; normally when buying crowns they come out of cold store in Spring so that you can plant them at a more amenable time of year)

My veg & soft fruit area (including greenhouse) total 500 sq.m., which is about the size of two allotments (and one allotment was, in wartime, deemed to be the area required to feed a family of 4), so I recommend that you decide on the position for the orchard and veg plots such that you could expand the veg. to that sort of size (sacrificing lawn presumably ) in future if you decide you want/need/can manage that much.

Ideally I would recommend spraying with Roundup to kill the grass a month before ploughing (repeating the initial spraying after two weeks for anything still green, or that you missed the first time) but the grass / weeds need to be actively growing for that to work, so you either need to wait for Spring or skip that step. You could still spray anything that appears in spring, prior to getting ready for planting your crops, which should help with anything pernicious. I haven't used any herbicides / pesticides on my veg patch since that first flying-start use of Roundup, but I'm glad I did

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[muddled]

Edited because Kristen has answered and knows far more about it than I do!

Sounds like a wonderful opportunity you have there!

[Guest]

Just before Christmas me and my family recently bought a field (1.25acres) half of which will be and orchard and we are also planning an allotment area which will be in the region of 150 square metres (with perhaps half an acre left as grass).

Are you sure you only want 150 square metres for allotment? most allotments are approx. 250 square metres. Don't get me wrong but at 0.037 of an acre it won't even dent your field and Kristens technique would be overkill. However, you say have family so if there are time issues it makes sense plus you can always extend

When you say rotavate do you mean the entire field or just the bit for your allotment?

I personally would put fencing (animal proof not garden glamorous) around the entire field it is pricey but will set you in good stead for protecting trees and other things you wish to nuture. The last thing you want is rabbits or deer munching on your fruit trees.

For the allotment bit try everything and anything it will be a will before you tame it and it sounds like you have given yourself a big task for the next couple of years. Also are you planning on any animals to keep the half acre of grass down? It took me a season to get half an acre under control with stihl strimmers and a lot of raking. My ground is really un-level and is undermined by moles and rats. Do you have any other obstacles to tackle?

[alldigging]

I can not offer anything advice wise but will offer up my deep envy!
Enjoy it!

[veggiechicken]

Paul, I have no worthwhile advice for you - just want to say Congratulations! How exciting to have a such a large area to plan, produce and play in. Enjoy every moment

[Paulieb]

Thanks for the comments so far.

To pad out the previous info......
The field is split between my family (+wife +2kids) my brother (+wife+2 kids) and our parents, so 10 in total.
We're all stretched for time hence going for 150sqm (most of the allotment will be just me and my semi retired parents). We'll have a ride on mower to keep the remaining grass and orchard under control.
The field is split in 2 by a drive/path to a water pumping station and the pumping station itself - prob 1/2 acre + 3/4 acre.
The orchard will be in the half acre with a couple of trees in the other field. Then our allotment will be in the bigger field away from the apples/pears so in theory it could spread up to about half an acre. However to begin with we're going for 150sqm to see how it goes and not over stretch ourselves.
We've extended the current perimeter fence upwards to be deer proof (as informed by local residents) and will rabbit proof the allotment. Trees will be rabbit proofed individually as there are various rabbit holes over the site.

[Paulieb]

To add....... the plan is to rotavate the minimum for the allotment to leave the remainder of the field for other recreation/agricultural uses.

[Stan79]

Hi there,

I'm in the process of buying a field and was wondering whether you would be prepared to share with me via private message how much you paid as the field we are looking at is a similar size...

I totally understand if you don't want to but thought i'd ask! It's a bit of a minefield as we're not sure what to offer and don't want to offend the potential seller!

Your plan sounds very similal to mine! Orchard and veggies. The best of both worlds. Good luck!

[Guest]

Hi there,

I'm in the process of buying a field and was wondering whether you would be prepared to share with me via private message how much you paid as the field we are looking at is a similar size...

I totally understand if you don't want to but thought i'd ask! It's a bit of a minefield as we're not sure what to offer and don't want to offend the potential seller!

Stan you would be better to be honest with yourself and what would you be prepared to pay. Me and Hubby looked on and off for several years for a house with a bit of land or potential to buy land and prices vary so much it is just silly. Value really doesn't seem to come into it. Also if the land is adjoining an existing property it rises in value more than it would for anyone else. Price per acre should be between £5000-£10000 in the UK. However, we looked at an acre of land with planning permission refused twice and not likely to ever get it, guide price £10-15k made £70k. If you still aren't really sure ask them first what sort of price are they looking for.

Good Luck

[Kristen]

To add....... the plan is to rotavate the minimum for the allotment to leave the remainder of the field for other recreation/agricultural uses.

Main problem I would have with rotavating is that it will leave all the root clumps of the grass mixed in, rather than buried. Even if they are meadow grass, and don't pose a big problem long term, they make it hard to prepare the soil - you will keep coming across them (in the first season) as you try to make a tilth, or even just using a trowel to make a planting hole. Hence why I thought ploughing would help, but as Norfolkgrey said 150 sq.m. is very small for that.

Manual option would be to strip off the turf (with a spade, or you could hire a turf-lifter but I hired one once and I didn't think it was very good), you can then stack the turf face down in a heap to rot if you would have a use for the nice loam that it generated after a year or so, or bury it in the trench you would create if you were to hand dig the area.

I reckon that rotavating a virgin plot with short-cut grass is likely to be hard work

[Kristen]

prices vary so much it is just silly

I agree, same round here, even land sold for agricultural can go for silly money if someone needs it for tax reasons ...

One possible option to reduce the price is to have a covenant so that if it subsequently sells for housing the original owner gets a proportion of the uplift in price - over, say, a period of 25 - 50 years. But that won't be any good if someone else wants the land without any such covenant and is prepared to pay top-dollar ...

[Bacchus]

. Price per acre should be between £5000-£10000 in the UK.

Good Luck

From a purely agricultural perspective that's certainly true for England and for the better land in Scotland and Wales. Poorer quality land (ie, that qualifying for Less Favored Area status) is much less. Here in Northern Ireland, good or average quality land is much more expensive for other reasons.

(A previous job was keeping track of such things )

[Guest]

The original plan was to rotavate, and then erect 4ft rabbit fencing before planting. Now I think it’ll be better to not rotovate, but cover with cardboard (and dig over by hand as and when time allows). As this will take much longer initially would you guys agree that it’ll be worth it in the long run.

I would go with the cover and work on it bit by bit when you can, forget rotavating. As long as it isn't likely to annoy you. Unfortunately I am a constant planner and I hit points where I get really annoyed if I am not at certain stages and I am my own worst nightmare, but hopefully you are not like that

[Kristen]

I am a constant planner and I hit points where I get really annoyed if I am not at certain stages and I am my own worst nightmare, but hopefully you are not like that ...

... Paulieb could hire your service though, eh?!!