toxins from old carpet

[longpig]

I've just taken on an allotment and, along with the couch grass and brambles, it's covered in old carpet that disintegrates when you try to dig it up. I know there is some concern about the toxins this releases -- should I be concerned about growing in the soil? Does anyone know if there is any science to back this up? Thanks for any advice!

[Jungle Jane]

If the carpets made of 100% natural fibers such as wool, cotton, or jute it's environmentally friendly. Im hoping it is there is advice online,some people use it for walkways,between beds. Maybe mark out the areas once you've removed the carpet,so you know to just use that area for pathways?

[Martin H]

I don't know about the toxins, but I sympathise. Several parts of my allotment contain long artificial fibre threads that used to be part of a long-disintegrated wool-based carpet.

For myself I've assumed that the stuff that has rotted will be fine and any nasty chemicals in it will have long since leached away. Life's too short to worry too much.

Our site, like many others, has now banned the use of carpet. I gather the modern stuff has a lot more nasties in it as well as being much less biodegradable.

[longpig]

Thank you for your replies! I don't think it's 100% natural -- to be honest everywhere I look there seems to be some different piece of carpet. Which also means I can't just use the affected areas as paths, unfortunately, as it covers about half my (half) plot. I suppose I could grow flowers!

[Jungle Jane]

If plants do grow there,would that mean the ground is ok? If the soil was toxic wouldn't the plant show symptoms? You could use raised beds to be safe,so your veg doesn't touch the ground

[Kristen]

Plant may well absorb the chemicals, which you then eat subsequently ... like fish in the sea absorb Lead (I think?) and hence advice was not to eat fish too often ... The plant might be unaffected, or happy enough to produce a crop, even if not at 100% of ability.

Raised beds, unless isolated entirely from the ground, will have the same problem - roots will go down into the lower soil. IMO raised beds are better off "open" to the soil below, indeed the soil below having been thoroughly dug before the raised beds constructed, specifically so that the roots can get nutrients, and water, from the soil below (and better drainage) - otherwise its a lot harder to look after plants in a raised bed - they need 100% of water and nutrients adding.

But having said all that I think one has to consider the risk ... no doubt best avoided (by not putting additional carpets onto veg patch), but probably no / little harm/risk from what is already there.

LOADS of hassle with trying to cultivate the soil with half-rotted carpet fibres in it though ... I have only ever used carpet, as a mulch, around young hedge plants as I am planning that they will be there forever! Better to use Cardboard as a short term weed prevention. Even woven weed suppressing membrane becomes a nightmare (to remove) if weeds are allowed to root through it over a prolonged period

[plotman]

I personally wouldnt concider there was any risk at all in growing in the ground. All growing areas have a degree of contamination but nature has wonderful way of dealing with mild doses of contamination. Think its an over reaction for anyone to be concerned about carpet dyes etc in soil. Im a plumber and trust me, You dont want to know whats in fresh water lol. After saying that why cant so called gardeners get a fork or spade and start GARDENING!!!! If you need help, Ask a friend. Why all this carboard/carpet/ raised beds etc??? Just stick to natural heathy gardening, And benifit from the exercise ( And we wont have to look at the dreadful mess of carpet covered allotments Stretched over sour soil starved of fresh air )

[Kristen]

Why all this carboard/carpet/ raised beds etc???

I'll ask "Why not?" ? (well, excepting the Carpet bit, I think that's a nuisance once it starts to rot), but I think the Cardboard and Raised beds have a place.

I couldn't garden here, in the time I have available, without them (although in my case its woven weed suppressing membrane in place of cardboard)

[Patsy]

I've raised beds due to flooding on site(clay soil) and protected oak trees whose roots spread a helluva long way!
I just dug up the soil of the path and made the beds higher plus compost etc. We all have to deal with the conditions on our plots as best we can. Raised beds have the advantage of not being trodden on as well

[plotman]

Well i unfortunately have a nieghbour who uses cardboard/ carpet etc etc and apart from being a terrible eyesore, Is constantly blowing around the allotments annoying everone else to tries to garden properly. Also it provides shelter for many furry creatures that are no friend to gardeners .If anyone is struggling to cope with there allotment, maybe a half plot or sharing with a friend would ease the situation?. Theres a lot of potential allotmenteres would welcome the chance to share a plot

[Kristen]

Interesting point about it blowing about ... if not weighted down that will happen of course. The normal approach is to cover it with manure / similar; the cardboard stops the weeds growing and it rots down together with the manure.

The issue about coping with a plot, which particularly interests me, is that of a new plot holder, a newbie to vegetable growing. If they struggle in the first year, and many do, and then give up I regard that as a loss, so helping them get their plot under control is something dear to my heart and covering it to stop the weeds growing whilst they tame it section by section is the best way I have come across. There are those who get the whole thing under control in short order, or who have a huge family/friends plot-warming! party, but they seem to be in the minority.

I do my best to keep mine looking smart, there is only really me to be bothered (its in my garden, and behind-a-hedge) but with the best will in the world there are chunks of the year where it looks a mess - right now is a prime example; when it is covered in veg all growing away nicely it looks OK, but never "pristine". I am sure if I had a neat & tidy neighbour they would be annoyed, but I still manage to grow all the vegetables my family eat for 10 months or so of the year

[Alison]

Well i unfortunately have a nieghbour who uses cardboard/ carpet etc etc and apart from being a terrible eyesore, Is constantly blowing around the allotments annoying everone else to tries to garden properly. Also it provides shelter for many furry creatures that are no friend to gardeners .If anyone is struggling to cope with there allotment, maybe a half plot or sharing with a friend would ease the situation?. Theres a lot of potential allotmenteres would welcome the chance to share a plot

Thankfully there is nothing in my contract that says my plot has to conform to a certain look and I'm sure some people wouldn't like it. It is however very productive and has crops to harvest all through the year. I also disagree with your comment about gardening properly - there are many ways to do things and different ways suit different people. I double dug all my beds the first year and now never dig. It works very well. Other people swear by digging which works for them. If you're producing crops to eat you're doing something right.

I do take your point about things blowing about, that must be annoying. I always weigh down any card I use and never find any furry creatures under it. Would never use carpet, spent enough time removing sample tiles from the plot when I first got it - think they'd be used for paths but there were bits everywhere. Not nice at all and necessitated a lot of trips to the tip.

[Greenleaves]

I am a digger but as Kristen and Alison say it is different strokes for different folks. Although a digger I still use cardboard and weed suppressant membrane. We also need to remember that physical ability plays a roll in gardening and more importantly its about what you grow not just how you grow.

[longpig]

Thanks for the replies. I think, as many of you say, any contamination there is probably isn't worth worrying about.

[plotman]

Well as were not nieghbours I guess it makes little difference to me ). But as for your comment about contract. I was referring to concideration for others rather than contractual obligations. Ive always concidered the community/social side of allotments just as important as the produce gained. Old fashoined values I guess )