Prospective Tenant - Organisation for people with learning difficulties

[alldigging]

Thanks Bigmallly - The lady responded to say that there would be one person supervising no more than 5 people, however one of our committee members stated that a 5:1 ratio does not provide adequate supervision 'at all times' in this situation.

I'm not quite sure how someone came up with that assumption!?

'Health and Safety on Educational Excursions'
That's an interesting document
https://www.educationscotland.gov.uk...cm4-596020.pdf

It is aimed at children being supervised though.

[suzynick]

I can't add anything to the comments already made, but I hope you get an amicable resolve in the shortest possible time.

thanks bearded bloke, it would be fine if the committee were one of value, unfortunately most of the members are pretty useless We're all entitled to opinions I know, but there are some that just cause trouble for the sake of it!

[alldigging]

thanks bearded bloke, it would be fine if the committee were one of value, unfortunately most of the members are pretty useless We're all entitled to opinions I know, but there are some that just cause trouble for the sake of it!

You do sound like you've made up your mind to go ahead with this. That'd probably pee me off if I thought it was being rail roaded through without proper thought and investigation.

There's all sorts of issues about supervision - one person on their own can't deal with an emergency and look after other people. Ratios have to be high enough to cope with situations that might arise.
Are plots fenced off so no one can wander on?

I suspect you should discuss it as a committee and then put it to the full site for their approval. It affects everyone potentially.

[alldigging]

http://dera.ioe.ac.uk/12320/7/nat-he...6_Redacted.pdf

That might be more suitable.

[bearded bloke]

Could you suggest a trial season to see how everybody gets on ? Personally I can't think of any practical reason that people with learning difficulties shouldn't make perfectly good gardeners, they might need a few extra lessons, if a blind golfer can get a hole in one anything's possible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T-gbgTLq8g

[Alison]

My dad's cousin had learning difficulties (back then he was just described as simple) following problems at his birth. He could never read but helped out in people's gardens in the village he lived in. He was rather horticulturally talented as I recall and his presence in the gardens didn't pose a risk to either him or anybody else. It is of course the case that this wouldn't necessarily be the case for somebody with different difficulties. That is the whole point of carrying out a risk assessment. Without looking at the risk of anything, using real knowledge and facts, nobody has any way of knowing if the ratios referred to above are correct or not. It's actually quite offensive to the individuals concerned to assume what they can or can't do without knowing them. Sounds like a great idea, growing should be available to as many people as possible.

[bearded bloke]

A thought, some on here listen to Tim & Joe (now Tim & Graham) on radio Leeds, on the show there is quite often mention of whats happening at Horticap in Huddersfield, they have a garden that is open to visitors, maybe you &/or other committee member/s could go along & have a chat with them & maybe get some first hand guidance ? their website ... Horticap – Growing Together: - Harrogate North Yorkshire garden maintained by adults with learning disabilities, open to the public and for educational school visits

[Alison]

You've just reminded me BB, this is a fab place near me - Walton Lea Project - Walton Lea

[suzynick]

You do sound like you've made up your mind to go ahead with this. That'd probably pee me off if I thought it was being rail roaded through without proper thought and investigation.

There's all sorts of issues about supervision - one person on their own can't deal with an emergency and look after other people. Ratios have to be high enough to cope with situations that might arise.
Are plots fenced off so no one can wander on?

I suspect you should discuss it as a committee and then put it to the full site for their approval. It affects everyone potentially.

Thanks for your comment.

I’m not quite sure how I have made it sound like I have made my mind up……I am the Secretary of an allotment association which has a Chairman that last year ‘announced’ at our AGM that the rent would be reduced (!) without discussing with the committee, a committee apart from 2 people that are next to useless, and I am trying my hardest to liase with both the committee and the organisation in question, so I can either proceed with her potentially visiting the plot, doing a risk assessment etc, or tell the lady that it is a no but giving her the valid points which some members have made.

Yes plots are fenced off.

[suzynick]

I probably sound quite negative, but as people might have noticed from my previous postings, I took this role on as no-one else stepped forward, and the last secretary didn't even have a plot anymore so I knew someone had to take it over, however I have been threatened with being sued if I didn't let a holder I quote "sell his plot" or he would burn it down (!) and regularly don't get any response to my emails to committee members until I am at the plot trying to mind my own business and then get moaned at!

I can't make the decision about this application, I can only be the go between with the committee and the organisation in question.

[muddled]

Okay, I simply do not understand the issue here.

Adults with learning difficulties are not children.
They are no more likely to succeed or fail at gardening than any other adult.
Lots of people without learning difficulties take on plots and fail to live up to commitee expectations.
People with learning difficulties have exactly the same rights as everyone else.

If a group of say, pensioners were to ask to rent a plot would you be discussing toilet facilities?
Would you be taking it upon yourselves to consider 'ratios' or looking for examples of where pensioners garden before making a decision?

I could understand questions about toileting and supervision ratios for bringing a dog onto an allotment site but to apply such consideration to a group of adults?

Whatever this commitee decide they'd better make sure that they apply that ruling to any and everyone else that applies for a plot or they are liable to sued.
And rightly so.

Now I am bowing out of this thread because, for the first ever time on this forum, I am disgusted.

[veggiechicken]

Hi Suzy and welcome
Can I ask how many plots there are on your site and whether you have a waiting list?
Just trying to understand why the committee are being so difficult about this.
Would you normally consult them about letting a plot?
In my experience, gardeners are always welcoming and enjoy sharing their knowledge and produce with everyone, and I mean everyone.
I'm disappointed that you have had to come here to ask about this.

[KevinM67]

Best if we take a step back, and let's not try and get too heated.

Firstly, If you are letting to any organisation, then the same rights/rules must apply - you cannot discriminate and it would be extremely offensive if you were seeking favourable references for them and not for any other prospective organisation and/or individual.

If you are letting a plot to an 'organisation' (any organisation), then the onus of insurance falls on the organisation and not your association. This should not be a problem, they will have adequate insurance - however it would be negligent of your Association if you didn't get a copy of their policy to ensure it is in place and up-to-date.

As I said in my previous post, the organisation will already have risk assessments in place for these type of things - they know the level of disability of each participant and their particular needs. Again, you are within your rights to seek copies of these and their Health & Safety Policy - however as stated before, you must apply this fairly and insist on this for any organisation that may want to rent a plot.

Lastly, the organisation must abide by the rules and obligations set by the Association, just like all other members - this also means you shouldn't put separate rules in place just for 'them'.

A big part of our work is trying to 'break down the barriers' and some of the misconceptions about learning disabilities. The levels of unemployment amongst those with a learning disability and the resultant cost/loss to society is shocking.

You wouldn't believe the amount of social/life skills and self worth that people gain when given chances/opportunities like this.

[Guest]

I am probably missing something but is it just the community group thing?
What are the current rules on the site for people to be on site other then the tenant holders? i.e they are allowed as long as the tenant holder is there or they have to pay (hopefully someone will say the terminology for me) and they get the same rights as the tenant but can't vote.

Apart from things that have been say I don't see the issue. The group is up and running elsewhere so it is worth just asking how they run at the moment so you can do what you can to accommodate them.

[alldigging]

a committee apart from 2 people that are next to useless,

Well a poorly managed committee is probably not capable of dealing with this issue properly so unless you're going to be the one to do everything that needs doing for this to happen then don't do it.

It will be more hassle than a normal plot holder and you will bear the brunt of the work.