New allotment holder, advice and options needed

[Dave1975]

Hi guys, another new allotment holder here. Well say new but took the plot back in early April when it was in far better looking condition than it does now. But I suspect that's possibly due to maybe it had been rotovatored several weeks prior which might help explain my current problems that are getting totally out of hand, you guessed it, bloody weeds!.

The plot itself is great otherwise, a 1.5 sized plot after initially taking just a 0.75 sized plot I took up the option of the other half which otherwise would have been split up into 2 separate 3/4 plots. Of cause a second shed and a mature Bramley Apple tree sort of convinced and which seeing as I now look to be getting a good 150-200 apples off it. In fact I have a bloody big main shed, a second smaller shed and a big 12ftx8ft greenhouse.

Anyways, never realised the underlying weed problem until the last several weeks and now seriously struggling on dealing with the problem due to recent bad weather spells and other work commitments. Sure as hell ain't giving up on the plot and in it for the long term, just unsure on my best current options to get on top of things.

I already planted quite a bit in the early days as I wanted to get something planted this year at least. But even after spending considerable time working on that section, de-weeding, getting roots out, old crops, turning over again and trying to fine rake prior to planting even that has got totally overgrown with weeds to but crops look like they aught to be ok as trying to manage that. Hence why the Rotavator thought due to excessive weed issues in what looked to be fairly weed free turned over ground at first!.

Oh, and the dreaded marestail, the place has it fairly excessively if in patches. Which makes best how to deal with the weeds a little uncertain seeing as the marestail is mixed in with the other weeds and so maybe can't be put on a general compost heap or such can it?.

My first decision is to not plant anything else new this year. But instead concentrate on dealing with the weed problem and getting the entire plot ready for next year instead so I'll have as hassle and weed free 2017 as possible.

My initial thoughts are to weed killer the entire non cropped area to at least try and prevent any further infestation of weeds, hopefully kill all but the most stubborn of weeds. At least then it will make working that section far easier over the summer months. Once weed killer has worked, cut and rake it all up and dig & de weed what's left. Then I'm looking at coating as much of the plot as possible in anti weed fabric\black plastic and pretty much leaving it untill next spring. But read conflicting things on using weed control fabric to cover ground to prevent weeds instead of more expensive thick black plastic. So unsure on my best option here.

Might even look at a second greenhouse for the plot to expand and grow my chilli plants in pots or grow bags next year. So would probably do a poly greenhouse on either a paved or gravel base which would also reduce the soiled area I'd have to work next year.

So, anyone any ideas or thought on firstly getting on top of my weeds issues?.

[ecudc]

Hi there and welcome. I am also a new plot holder and got mine this time last year. I've benefited from a few things. The first was that my plot had been completely gone over by the council with weed killer a few months before I took it on. This got rid of most of the perennials. I then spent time removing as much as was left by hand before covering for the Autumn and winter. I used control fabric but it blew off a lot in storms where as the guys using plastic staid mainly because of the addition weight of the water sitting on top.

When spring came I did rotavate but then spent about a month creating stale seedbeds. My plot is still more weedy than my neighbours but is gradually coming under control.

The other thing you could try, especially over the mares tail is layering large amounts of compost over cardboard. It's not very easy to kill.

[veggiechicken]

Hi Dave, Welcome to the Vine.
Its been a good year for weeds, wet and warm. Clear a patch, walk away and by the time you return, the weeds are back
You've mentioned marestail but what other weeds do you have? If they're annual weeds you can pull/dig them out or cover with cardboard to smother them. Personally, I wouldn't want to use weedkiller where edible crops are to be grown. Your choice, obviously.
This may help http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/gra...ase_90478.html

[Stan79]

Ditto on the weedkiller where you want to plant things you're then going to eat!

I know some people aren't fans of weed control fabric however, i used it for the first two years on my plot and had great success with it. Any weeds that did grow underneath it were easy to pull out as they were very weak and spindly as they looked for the light and most importantly, after i had spent ages digging and weeding and rotavating and generally incorporating some more organic matter as the soil is very clayey, it stopped other weeds being blown onto it. It also means the ground warms up quicker (as proven with a thermometer in the soil under the fabric and out in the open) and retains moisture well.

The slugs do like it but then so do the frogs!

I didn't use it over the whole plot last year and now regret it as i have more weeds this year than in the last two years put together!

[Dave1975]

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated. Though my intention on using the weedkiller is restricted to just the areas not getting used this year to grow anything. In fact I've no intention on growing\planting anything whatsoever on that section until about next late Feb to early March at the very earliest. In other words plant free for a good 8 months so surely therefore there is less risk or harm in using weedkiller now if ground is not going to be used for growing edible crops for some 8 months?.

I'm unsure on being able to source a required level of cardboard in the short term to cover what I'd want to cover. Hence why I'm more looking at using either weed control fabric or black plastic sheeting. But hay, could try a bit of everything on different areas to compare results.

As for what other types of weeds?, er now this is where I know nothing and showing just how little I know. I guess I can take some pics tomorrow and upload to help identify them. Though definitely nettles, dandelions in places and a few others I'm unsure of.

[veggiechicken]

First know your enemy If you identify the weeds first - you may find they're not so threatening as you think. They may not be "weeds" at all but self seeded veggies or flowers.
Take some photos and we'll try to identify them and give you some ideas on how to deal with them.
Bike shops & electrical stores are good places for large cardboard boxes.

[Cadalot]

I would never use a rotavator unless the plot was weed free (especially couch grass) and if it was then the likelihood is that the soil is good anyway. You can't beat slow and sure plodding and weeding and weeding. Covering and killing is the best method.

My first plot I used the carpet that had been grown over my bindweed to cover as I dug and plastic. Plastic has the benefit of keeping the area dry. when I lifted the carpet the clay was shiny and polished and I could not get a fork into it and I used a pick axe to break it up and them a spade and finally a fork.

My new plot is covered in a mixture of tarp and plastic sheeting. Some weeds are coming through the tarp in areas but I have a plastic sheet that is moved to the area over the tarp in the area of the next two beds that I'm going to dig.

I dig and weed the paths although some books tell you not to, but you can't afford to leave too many bits of couch grass behind as they will grow back into your beds. My paths are covered in weed membrane, and when it can be arranged I will woodchip over the membrane on my new plot.

Weighing down tarp down with anything I can get my hands on, washing tablet containers filled with stones, flower buckets filled with manure, soft bricks i.e. plastic milk bottles filled with sand etc.

I find beds that 2.4, x 1.2m beds that I can cover with weed membrane over winter and I grow through weed membrane helps in keeping the weeds under control (ish)

I have documented progress on both my plots from 2013 and 2015 so take a look at my diary for more details and lots of photos.

[Dave1975]

Well my current beds I'm growing in, once the crops are done and dusted are going to be weeded, fine raked and covered over until next year. With what really depends what I'll have to hand at the time as could be some time off yet. But with weed membrane\fabric I at least have the option of growing through as some seem to. Cadalot, will check out your grow diaries later as always wanting to learn and get ideas.

[Dave1975]

And as for the rest of the site, pretty much un-defined, no beds or pathways (barring a paving path half way through the length of the plot) no sign of what or where anything had been grown in previous years as such. Pretty much just open spaced like it had previously as suggested been totally rotovatored. Which suits me in part as I want more a blank canvas so to speak to pretty much design my own layout from scratch. Even decided on a section for fruit trees & bushes etc such is the space I have.

[Dave1975]

Right, here are a few weed pics to show what I have and the extent of the problem.

[Dave1975]

Also, a couple of wide shots of the plot itself to show how it looks in itself. Barring the weed problems very happy with what I've got.

[Martin H]

Nice plot!

It looks like the weeds are mostly the usual annual ones, with only the marestail being pernicious.
The annual weeds are of course seeding now. You could try burning them off with a flamethrower, killing most of the seeds as well as all the minibeasts that are doubtless hiding there. But personally I would make a nice big compost heap with them and steel myself to deal with the weeds that come up once I use the compost.

[Dave1975]

I sure like the idea of taking revenge on the weeds with a flame thrower, very much indeed. But unsure on being able to source one locally, er hang on, pre posting I search Amazon to find the wands are cheap enough and look to use standard camping stove cannisters?. Though slightly unsure on if the best or safe option seeing as the weed growth is very think is a lot of places.

The site is supposed to have a communal petrol strimmer im told, but getting hold of the secretary (acting) to find out or borrow it seems an impossible task right now. But even then, using a strimmer on seeding weeds?, maybe not the best option either I'm thinking?.

[Deano's "Diggin It"]

Hi Dave! Welcome aboard!

I too would be very reluctant to be lashing copious amounts of "Weed Killer" around, although seems the quickest & logical thing to do, I certainly wouldn't!

Hard work n perseverance was my option now nearly 5 years ago, & has paid dividends!

Yes! Looking at it, & the size & state of your plot, it ain't actually that bad!

I would do as I did, strim the whole area & burn the lot, don't compost, after all you are wanting a fresh start & blank canvas, look after the beds you have already planted in way of reward, then set about hand digging certain small sections at a time, removing roots of any perennials & all else.

Yeah! It's "Pain Staking" & "Time Consuming" but if you are in for the "Long Haul" as you seem to be, honestly, it's well worth the labour.

I hardly ever see a perennial these days, apart from the odd one, & Annuals are so easy to deal with!



This is last week, & I certainly am not on top of my game this year!

[Stan79]

I had visions of massive swathes of vicious weeds! I would dig all that one bit at a time and if you wanted to, use the weed suppressant matting to cover the lot and slowly roll it back as you clear each section. Once you've cleared a section roll the matting back over to keep this year's seeds off the soil and next year it should be ready to go.