Garden size and optimisation

[Aldersbrook]

Hi all,

In 1 months time my partner and I are moving to a new house and we are lucky enough to have a decent size garden at the back which are planning on using to be as self-sufficient (veg and fruit wise) as possible.

We are just the 2 of us at the moment but planning on having a couple of kids in a couple of years). Having said that we are huge consumer of vegs and fruits, we definitely eat our 10 a day each!

My experience with gardening so fr have been planting vegs and fruits in container and I have no idea on how to plan our plot to optimise its production and respond to our needs. So this is where your advices and experience would be much appreciated. I have started a plan on garden planner (see attached) that will hopefully help us design the most productive layout and help us manage the poduction.

Here are details of what we do have and would like to have:

Details about what we consume on a weekly basis:

- Various vegs (courgettes, beans, carrots, tomatoes, aubergines, lettuce, cabage, pak choi, asparagus, beetroots, brocolis, sprouts, celery, leeks, mangetout, pepper, potatoes, raddish)

- Various fruits (most berries, lime, lemons, cherries, melons, grapes). Maybe pears and apples but not sure there will be enough space

- Various herbs (the usual suspects, thyme, rosemary, chives, mint, basil, corriander)

- Hot chillies, onions and garlic

- Chickens for eggs at first (and potentially meat later on)

- Bees, 4 beehives would be ideal (I enrolled in a beekeeping course few months ago)

Details about the plot and what I have Currently drafted:

- Total garden size: 36ft x 100ft (approximately 3200sqft)
- Plantable space: 30ft x 60ft (approximately 2000 sqft)
- garden is north facing and house is double storey

See plan I have drafted so far:



It includes:

- 13 raised bed of 10x3ft for fruits and vegs
- 5 raised bed of 3x3 for herbs
- 4 beehives
- chicken house 6x18 and run 6x21
- composting area
- water harvesting tank
- We need to leave some grass space between the decking and the raised bed for the kids. Also a path on the right side big enough for a car as well as a small path in between the summer house and the vegetable plot (6ft or so)

What do you think?
How can I optimise the layout/production?
Would a polytunnel or greenshouse help? Or small polytunnel cover on top of raised bed would be enough?

I'm aware that we might not be able to plant all the fruits and vegs listed above so we will focus on the most money saving ones.

Thanks!!

[fishpond]

You will need a greenhouse--given time it will pay for itself.
Preferably with a power supply for propagators.
What? NO RHUBARB

[Bren In Pots]

Hello and welcome to the vine Aldersbrook

I'd say a GH or a poly-tunnel is a must and probably a cold frame for hardening off, also beds don't need to be raised unless you have problems with something like drainage.

[Aldersbrook]

Thanks guys. I kind of guessed a GH or a polytunnel would be necessary but noe my question is what size whould I go for? 25,30,40 or 50% of the growing space?

Obv, this is still our back garden and our kitchen extension will be giving onto it so if we could avoid having view on a big fat plastic tunnel that take all the garden space that would better


Rob - Not a massive fan of rhubarb at all actually

[fishpond]

It is such a big question with so many variables, my garden has taken me many years and It is still evolving as my ideas change. This has absolutely nothing to do with me, but I am going to recommend a book for you both to read properly and study.

ISBN 9780857842442

There are many other books on the subject of creating and maintaining a garden.

I hope this helps.

[veggiechicken]

Hi and welcome
Lots of grand ideas there, although I can't make out the detail on your plan, sorry.
Just a few random thoughts (as most of mine are!)
Greenhouses are not ugly and can be attractive features in a garden, IMO. However, they need a good sunny spot, preferably close to a water supply. Size matters with a GH - the bigger the better. Have a look at your local Freecycle/gumtree for a free GH.
Plan where to put your GH first, then design your garden around it.
Chicken runs can be in the shady part of the garden.
Beehives are best in a quiet spot without too much activity. You don't want to be crossing the flight path every time you walk down the garden.
Some of the crops you mention will be difficult to grow in the UK (limes) and need a GH or other protection (peppers, aubergines and tomatoes to protect them from blight).
What is the garden like at present? Any trees to cast shadows? Anything you want to keep?

[Guest]

Hi and welcome to the vine

Sorry I struggled to see what was what on your plan as well. When you do the beds, mark them out with string and sticks and get a feel for it. Don't put to much effort in first year such as edging etc., just make sure they work for you. I suspect you will tweak them for the next year.

Do you feel the plan is realistic? Ideally do a little and expand on that over time, it is better to do one thing right then ten things wrong.

As for fruit trees you could train some along walls or fences or have dwarf trees in pots. What do you have on the boundaries - hedge, fence etc? Also what is beyond your garden (just wondering about the four hives)

Have a good mooch around there is loads of advice on here

[Aldersbrook]

Thanks Veggiechicken & Norfolkgrey.

I have just realised that my plan is too small to see clearly. To clarify and answer some of your question(s):

- The big brown thing on the top (on my plan above) is a summer house. On the left and behind I am planning on using the space for the chicken. On the right it will be the composting bins and water tanks. Bear in mind that the summer house is not built yet, so it could be placed differently.
- The yellow boxes on the left are the beehives.
- The 12 rectangular boxes are the raised beds.
- The 5 squared boxes at the bottom are squared raise beds.
- The orangy thing at the bottom is simply the house decking area.

This is the garden at present:

As mentioned the garden is north facing but it's very long (100ft) so most of it should be sunny enough to be honest, with the sunniest on the right end side.

From what you are saying greenhouse is "mandatory". The house is semi detached (detached part on the right side, so we would need to keep that right part of the garden as an alley/path ideally. But I guess the greenhouse could be against the boundary and the alley/path could go around it.

[Aldersbrook]

Thanks guys. Sorry I did not realised that the my plan was too small to be read properly. Basically:

- The big brown block on the top is the summer house that we are planning on building. So we will need a clear path leading to that as away from the bees as possible.
- On the left and back I am planning on using that space for the chicken house an run
- The right side will be for composting, water harvesting tank etc.
- The Yellow boxes you see on the left are the bee hives.
- The rectangular and small squared boxes are the raised beds.
- The orangy thing at the bottom is the decking area.


This is how the garden is at the moment. The house is semi-detached, detached on the right side. As you can see, there are no fences, just big, tall hedges each side.



From what you are saying the GH is necessay. Garden is north facing but very long (100ft) so the sunnier part of the garden would be the right side from mid way I would say. I guess we could put a greenhouse on that right side and have the path to go around it.

Coming back to the GH size, I have just had a look. is 8x14ft enough for my needs? Shall I go smaller or bigger?

Thanks

[Aldersbrook]

Layout

Hi Thanks guys for your help.
Here is an updated plan that hopefully will help.
I like that arrangement however because of the greeenhouse I am losing all the fence space which is exposed south-west, so ideal for fruits (bushes, berries and eparlier).
Also, not sure if that amount of raised bed would be enough?

What do you guys think? Any suggestions? Ideas on how I should arrange that layout?

[ESBkevin]

Just a random comment. In your opening post you said the chicken hut would be 6x18 and the run 6 x 21, is this in feet? If so that's far too big for a chicken hut for 6 chickens or the run is inadequate for 100+. Now you can use some of the sectioned off coop for storage of food equipment and tools but the fowl will be better in a small coop suited to thier needs. They feel comfortable huddled together for warmth in the winter so 3x4 ft would be quite adequate as a coop (with the nesting box protruding external for ease of egg collecting) and venting for the summer that is adjustable. That gives you either a bigger run (part coverred if you like) or more growing area.
Looks like you're going to have a lot of fun.

[Aldersbrook]

chickens

Just a random comment. In your opening post you said the chicken hut would be 6x18 and the run 6 x 21, is this in feet? If so that's far too big for a chicken hut for 6 chickens or the run is inadequate for 100+. Now you can use some of the sectioned off coop for storage of food equipment and tools but the fowl will be better in a small coop suited to thier needs. They feel comfortable huddled together for warmth in the winter so 3x4 ft would be quite adequate as a coop (with the nesting box protruding external for ease of egg collecting) and venting for the summer that is adjustable. That gives you either a bigger run (part coverred if you like) or more growing area.
Looks like you're going to have a lot of fun.

Indeed, completely agree. Although the plan is to eventually grow chickens for meat too.
Also the measurements I gave where basically just for the chicken space. The split hut/run will be adjusted.

[Guest]

- We need to leave some grass space between the decking and the raised bed for the kids. Also a path on the right side big enough for a car as well as a small path in between the summer house and the vegetable plot (6ft or so)

How far back do you need to go with the car space? (is it just beside the house, then the path runs down the rest of the garden)

Hi Thanks guys for your help.
Here is an updated plan that hopefully will help.
I like that arrangement however because of the greeenhouse I am losing all the fence space which is exposed south-west, so ideal for fruits (bushes, berries and eparlier).
Also, not sure if that amount of raised bed would be enough?

What do you guys think? Any suggestions? Ideas on how I should arrange that layout?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]71953[/ATTACH]

Seeing as you like this layout, I will say how I would tweak it. Firstly I have an issue with your hives. I would face them so the entrances face the chicken coop or summer house(as long as it doesn't affect a door), or something in that area to get them fly up rather than at.

You have essentially a 100ft path running down your garden. Think arches, structure etc. can be used for climbing veg, trained fruit etc.

I would lose the little raised beds and think pots of herbs on the decking. I would shrink the two beds in line with the greenhouse and shuffle them over to get a 3rd pos. 4th in to allow for crop rotation.

I would also think of putting a structure in between the lawn and veg patch - again trained fruit etc but also to deflect outdoor toys. So you create rooms basically but nothing too dense, so will still allow light etc. through.

I have no idea about almond trees, is it already there? I thought they had to be very mature (and large) to crop. Hopefully another grape is familiar with them.

Hope something there helps

[Aldersbrook]

layout2

Thanks Norfolkgrey. This is exactly the kind of feedback and ideas that I need. See my comments:

How far back do you need to go with the car space? (is it just beside the house, then the path runs down the rest of the garden)

The car thing is not necessary anymore, a simple footpath leading from the ride side of the house to the summer house is enough. Basically, the way I designed it is that path will be going between the greenhouse and the raised bed.

Seeing as you like this layout, I will say how I would tweak it. Firstly I have an issue with your hives. I would face them so the entrances face the chicken coop or summer house(as long as it doesn't affect a door), or something in that area to get them fly up rather than at.

You have essentially a 100ft path running down your garden. Think arches, structure etc. can be used for climbing veg, trained fruit etc.

I would lose the little raised beds and think pots of herbs on the decking. I would shrink the two beds in line with the greenhouse and shuffle them over to get a 3rd pos. 4th in to allow for crop rotation.

I would also think of putting a structure in between the lawn and veg patch - again trained fruit etc but also to deflect outdoor toys. So you create rooms basically but nothing too dense, so will still allow light etc. through.

I have no idea about almond trees, is it already there? I thought they had to be very mature (and large) to crop. Hopefully another grape is familiar with them.

Hope something there helps

I was thinking that with the beehives....I could turn them around I guess, I might affect the chicken hut entrance but I can work around that. The summer house entrance will most likely be at the opposite corner.

I agree about the structures. My only concern is creating shades while using those?

Very good point about the raised beds and the almond tree. I will amend that.

I was thinking that I could also move the greenhouse to the opposite boundarie and have the beehives to face it. But my concern with that is light. I am concern that the greenhouse would not be as exposed as it should be because it would be against a relatively tall hedge facing east instead of west. What do you think?

[Aldersbrook]

layout 3

Thanks! This is exactly the kind of feedback I need.

Forgot about the car path, it's actually not necessary and I actually scrapped that when I put the greenhouse in there. The main thing is that there is footpath that lead to the summer house from the right side of the house, which here is between the greenhouse and the raised beds.

With regards to hives, I agree. It was one of my concerns too. There will be a entrance to the chicken coop/run area, but it would only be going there and the hives should be far enough for not disturbing. The entrance of the summer house will be to the opposite corner, near the greenhouse. Keeping the bees from that entrance/path is key.

Very good point about the structures I have taken that on board. I also agree on the small raised bed and the pot on the decking. My only concern with the structures, arches etc is the shade that they might create..shall I be concerned?

Good point about the almond tree too, it's not there yet...might be worth planting something faster to grow and produce.

My updated plan:

Now 2 questions:

- Would it not be better to move the greenhouse to the opposite boundary? My only concern is that it would be against a relatively tall hedge and might be more in the shade, as it would be facing east instead of west). The pros would be that I free up the most exposed boundary, so potentially more fruits can be planted there. What do you think?

- In general the layout is not bad but all very squared up. Wonder if there isn't something a little bit less "symmetrical" that we could go for but keeping efficiency in mind.