Cane fruit identification

[ameno]

I have a mysterious cane fruit (Rubus species) popping up all over the place on my new allotment. Sadly, there are no remaining stems with flowers on from last year, only new stems popping up, so no fruit this year.
It's definitely not a European blackberry (the stems are perfectly round), and I'm pretty sure it's not a raspberry, either (wrong colours). The stems are covered in bright red bristles (it's definitely not wineberry, though) and the leaves are dark green, with reddish central veins.
They're popping up everywhere, rather like raspberries do, but there was a more mature one growing right next to a blackcurrant bush (so I had to dig it up) which was growing in a neat clump, like loganberries do.
Any ideas?
I'll try to take some photos if I can, although I understand that it might be hard to tell, even from those, and my best bet may just be to wait for fruit.

[nickdub]

Does it have any flowers or buds on now ?

[ameno]

Sadly, no. One did, but it was the one growing right in amongst the blackcurrant, so I had to pull it up.

[veggiechicken]

Are the bristles hard or soft - like the difference between bramble and wineberry.?

[nickdub]

Thinking on it, I reckon your best bet for an id is to have a word with other allotment holders on the site - chances are some-one will know.

If you get some info please let us know :-)

[ameno]

I was there today and happened to run into the woman who used to hold the plot. She doesn't remember too well, but thinks there are either tayberry or loganberry. They don't look like any loganberry I've ever seen, so I'm thinking tayberry.

Are the bristles hard or soft - like the difference between bramble and wineberry.?

Stiffer than wineberry bristles, but definitely closer to bristles than actual thorns.

[nickdub]

I grow two sorts of Tayberry - one smooth, the other v spiny, a bit like a hyper-bramble - may be the ones you have are seedlings, and so a valuable new sort unknown to horticulture :-)

[veggiechicken]

In my mind "popping up all over the place" means literally that - anywhere.
Are yours close to the plant you took out?
Could you trace the roots back to that plant or, is it something that may have grown from seeds that have been spread by birds?
My tayberry (or is it a thornless loganberry?) throws out very long canes each year. If they touch the ground they root but the parent plant hasn't spread much at all.

[ameno]

They're coming up in an area probably 3x2m in great number, plus the odd one elsewhere in that general corner of the allotment.
Given how stout the stems are, I'm fairly sure they are not seedlings, but rather are coming from well-established roots, either intentionally planted, spread underground, or spread by the plants layering themselves in previous years.

[nickdub]

From the various details, I'd say that these plants are nearer to some sort of raspberry than anything-else I recognise .