Adopted orange tree.

[Bonjour]

About a month ago, I "rescued" an orange tree that was being uprooted from the greenhouse where it was growing, to make way for development. I don't know anything about it, how old, what variety, etc. My daughter dragged it round to our place, pretty much bare-rooted.

It was about 6 feet high but that was due to a mighty watershoot coming up the middle of it. It's probably a youngish tree because the thorns on it a huge. I can't see any obvious sign of a graft, so I'm assuming it's a seed-grown job. After some snipping with the secateurs I got it down to a more manageable 4 foot or thereabouts.

Not having access to citrus compost, I improvised with a mix of garden soil (sandy loam), aged, sifted horse muck compost (20%) and washed beach grit (20%). Bunged it in the biggest pot I had and stood it indoors, unheated under a corrugated plastic roof, unfortunately on the North side of the house. It's currently getting about 14-15C daytime and the lowest nighttime temp so far has been 10C.

It seems to like its new home, as it has not sulked or dropped leaves and there is new growth appearing at the tips of a few branches. The new growth looks like little clawed hands. Which brings me to my question.

In the unlikely event of it blossoming, how can I tell the early stages of flower bud development? I'm assuming the little bunched claws are leafy growth, rather than flower.

[nickdub]

The flowers are white so the unopened buds have a white end to them, unlike leaf buds which are of course a bright green.

Do you have a plan for a long term site for the tree ?

[Bonjour]

The flowers are white so the unopened buds have a white end to them, unlike leaf buds which are of course a bright green.

Do you have a plan for a long term site for the tree ?

These are bright green

To be honest, it was a spur of the moment thing and I didn't expect it to survive my pruning, potting and housing arrangements. If it continues to do well, I'll stick it out in the sunshine when the weather warms up and see how it goes. depending on how big it gets, I'll either lug it back in to where it is now or try to re-home it with a friend who has a very large greenhouse. If he doesn't want it, it may end up as orange scented firewood for the bonfire.

[Nicos]

I'm no expert with fruit trees but my gut feeling is that you really want it to grow roots this year and not flowers/fruit.
Personally if it did flower I'd remove them asap so it can concentrate on feeding itself rather than reproducing.

[nickdub]

These are bright green

To be honest, it was a spur of the moment thing and I didn't expect it to survive my pruning, potting and housing arrangements. If it continues to do well, I'll stick it out in the sunshine when the weather warms up and see how it goes. depending on how big it gets, I'll either lug it back in to where it is now or try to re-home it with a friend who has a very large greenhouse. If he doesn't want it, it may end up as orange scented firewood for the bonfire.

I think, and this is only a guess, that the tree might well be fine planted out year round somewhere in a corner of your garden, especially if you have a spot which is protected to an extent from the prevailing winds.
My experience of semi-hardy trees and shrubs is that the bigger/older they get, the longer and/or sharper cold snaps they can survive - I do remember seeing pictures of frozen oranges on trees which I think happened in Florida one year and I suppose those trees recovered in the end. Maybe one of your neighbours has a citrus tree of some kind in their gardens and would be able to advise you better about the local climate on your island as to what plants you could push the envelope with - tree ferns, and bananas come to mind as two possibles.


BTW with pruning in general on any tree or shrub my advice is, if in doubt don't do it.

[Bonjour]

Thanks Nickdub,

I think you might be right about it being borderline survivable here. Strong winds are more likely to be the problem, though we can occasionally get a hard frost. It will be a suck it and see as to where it ends up. I'm not even sure it is worth keeping, because, if it is grown from a pip, it could take ten or more years to produce and be any old cross, possibly not even edible.

BTW with pruning in general on any tree or shrub my advice is, if in doubt don't do it.

Good advice, but what I cut out was definitely a couple of large watershoots that would take all the goodness and give nothing back except height. Besides, it was too tall for the place it was going to take up residence.

[nickdub]

For me the best thing about citrus fruit grown in UK conditions is the flowers with their scent. I have a friend in Staines who has some orange and lemon trees planted near his house wall and given a little protection over winter they grew OK - nothing much to write home about for most of the year, but when they were in flower their perfume was something-else.

[Bonjour]

I'm toying with the idea of a lemon tree, another reason for not making any permanent decisions an the orange tree yet. If you get the right varieties, lemons are more frost-tolerant than oranges and more likely to bear blossom and fruit in our climate. Eureka is supposed to be a good one to go for.

[ameno]

I'm toying with the idea of a lemon tree, another reason for not making any permanent decisions an the orange tree yet. If you get the right varieties, lemons are more frost-tolerant than oranges and more likely to bear blossom and fruit in our climate. Eureka is supposed to be a good one to go for.

If you want a cold tolerant citrus, satsuma (actual satsuma, not mandarin or clemantine or whatever) or yuzu would be best.
Satsuma is more cold tolerant than any of the other common citrus, and yuzu is more cold tolerant still. Yuzu, if you don't know, are small-ish round and greeny-yellow. They're quite similar to lemons in taste and uses, but a lot more fragrant.

[Bonjour]

Thanks Ameno,

I didn't know satsuma are so cold tolerant. That's a possibility. Any idea if they fruit reliably outdoors in a Southern British climate?

[ameno]

I wouldn't say satsuma are cold tolerant enough to risk outdoors full time in any but the most sheltered place, even in Cornwall. They'd probably be fine where you are, though, as long as you put them somewhere sheltered from cold winds. They are grown commonly in the Shizuoka and Wakayama prefectures of Japan, both of which get colder in the winter than Alderney. Although having said that, Japanese satsuma trees are usually grafted onto triofoliate orange, which is very hardy (I saw a big one in a garden in Poland, and it gets very cold in winter there), but when I was looking to buy a satsuma here I could only get one on Seville orange roots, which although hardier than most other citrus roots, are still appreciably less hardy than trifoliate orange.
Basically, if you do decide to try a satsuma outdoors, I think it would probably be okay where you are in a suitably sheltered spot, but at least be prepared for the possibility of losing it in a particularly cold winter.
Be sure it has very good drainage, too, as they don't like to be too wet in the winter.
No idea about fruiting in our climate, I'm afraid.

Yuzu, however, I would definitely think would be fine outdoors in the southwest, at least hardiness wise. They grow them outdoors in Japan as far north as the Miyagi prefecture, and it gets colder there in the winter than it does in the southwest of England. Although they also get hotter summers, so, again, I'm not sure about reliability of fruiting.

[ameno]

I just looked at my potted satsuma in my consevatory, and it has flower buds coming already, so clearly it like it well enough in there. Satsumas are thankfully parthenocarpic, so I won't have to worry about pollination.
My yuzu and my mysterious seed-grown citrus also have new shoots coming, but no flowers yet (I don't really expect them to, to be honest. The yuzu is still too small, and the seed-grown one has never flowered in the 12 odd years I've been growing it).

[DannyK]

Saw a lemon tree full of fruit in an enormous planter outside Barbican Conservatory on Saturday. Unfortunately could get photo as couldn't access walkway.

[ameno]

Saw a lemon tree full of fruit in an enormous planter outside Barbican Conservatory on Saturday. Unfortunately could get photo as couldn't access walkway.

Outdoors? If so, that's pretty impressive.

[TrixC]

Another relatively cold hardy citrus is kumquat. I have one in my garden here in London and it stays out all winter and fruits reliably every year. I’m tempted to try a limequat too.

I come from the north of New Zealand, my parents have a large garden with about 20 varieties of citrus. They live in a valley so unusually for that area do get the occasional winter frost, officially the climate is considered subtropical. It’s true the trees can take a few degrees of frost once established but they also need a hot summer to fruit well, this is particularly true for oranges, lemons etc are more tolerant of cooler summers. As an earlier poster explained the rootstock also influences the degree of hardiness, I have no idea how a tree grown from a pip would perform. Given the difficulty growing citrus in this part of the world and the amount of effort you need to put in I’m not sure I would bother, better to try a named variety on a proper rootstock.

Oh, and “little bunched claws” is a creepy but accurate description of what the new foliage looks like!