apple tree with thornes

[wayne]

has anyone ever seen or heard of an apple tree with long sharp thornes? it grows quite large red apples. i googled apple trees with thornes but i only found reference to crab apples having them and these are definately not crabs... there so red that the colour bleeds into the flesh from the skin. the original tree that mine came from was in someones back garden in the aston on clun (shropshire) area and was a hugh very old specimen, they didnt know what variety they were so can anyone enlighten me?

[SarzWix]

It could have been raised from a pip Wayne, & if the fruit the pip came from was made by pollenating an apple blossom with crab-apple pollen, then who knows what sort of mad hybrid it could be?!

[Nicos]

It's not a Quince is it?? ( or a cross?)

Mind you- the redness does suggest a crab apple as SarzWix suggests!

[wayne]

im going to the lottie now so i'l take a piccy, its only a small graft about 3ft tall that i have there but might give you a better idea. the other trees are safe with my nan, we managed to get 5 clones off the tree before the whole orchard was removed by the new owners, i carnt help feeling i got something special here! but wish i knew a little more... cheers

[wayne]

do these snaps ring any bells?

[Palustris]

Try the Brogdale site I think they have an ID area.

[jeannine]

It might help to phone Ken Muir Nurseries. They are very well informed on rare apples.

[rustylady]

From the photos it looks suspiciously like a quince.

[southlondongardener]

Are they eating or cooking apples ? If eating I would guess that it is not a quince.

[wayne]

definatly eating apples (not a quince), iv eaten them. they are really sweet, crisp, juicy and red inside. the blossem is about to open so il send a pic of that when it does(white and pink).
iv never seen a red quince do they exist? i know the flowers are red but the fruit is always green?

[TPeers]

I'm with Rustylady - those thorns look like quince - which is confusing because the fruit sounds like a crab cross.

Would you describe the fruit as crisp, sweet almost champayne? Best fresh off the tree, dosen't store well?

I'm hareing after an idea here and will have to poke the brain cells but I *think* I've come across this somewhere. Years ago, something to do with my Gran........

Gran and Grandpops were something in the Ministry of food during the war, Pops had something to do with seed potatoes and there supply, not sure exactly what Gran did except I have a mad idea fruit came into it somewhere.

Will ask around in the family......

[Headfry]

Dont they graft apples onto quince root stocks? Try looking up Bernwode Nurseries.
They have fantastic range of apples and will grow trees from your cuttings!!!!! if wished
Please let us know the outcome.

[rustylady]

Wayne, have you found out what it is yet??

[littlemark]

This is the answer I had from a colleague with an interest in apples, and red-fleshed apples in particular:

'there are quite a few crab apples with thorns, as your contact suggests. the
only other apple tree i've come across which has thorns is the rootstock m26,
and to a lesser extent, mm106.

i think the apple in questions is probably a seedling. these sometimes have
thorns, too.

there are many thousands of these around england, all unidentifiable, as i'm
sure you know.'

It has been known for the rootstock on an apple tree to become dominant over the scion. In old cider apple orchards Bulmers Norman was often used as an inter-stock between the rootstock and scion, and because it is a very vigorous variety these trees would often become Bulmers Norman over time. Perhaps this is what's happened here with the rootstock. Quince rootstock is usually used for pears.

Mark

[Headfry]

Littlemark, sorry yes it's quince for pears I got mixed up! sorry folks!