Victoria Plum - location?

[grannysmith]

HI all

We are just about to plant a Victoria Plum on Pixy root stock. The place we wanted to plant it has some hours of sun in the morning, but is then in the shade of the house for a few hours in the afternoon, before again having the evening sun.

We aren't on a farm but in a residential neighbourhood, so I know "full sun" would be better, but has anyone ever tried it in "mostly sun but some shade"? Any ideas from the experts on this one?

Many thanks in advance!

[adrian901]

You just won't get as many plums and they won't be as sweet as if it was planted in full sun. But it will flower & fruit. Cover it with fleece if there is a risk of frost after the end of March otherwise you may lose the crop.

Good luck

[FB.]

It'll probably be fine, but as mentioned, reduced sun can mean reduced flowering. With a self-fertile and prolific variety such as Victoria, you'll probably still get adequate quantities of fruit.
I'm not sure about plums, but apples and pears can be encouraged to produce increased numbers of flower buds by hard-pruning of all the new growth in August, by cutting back to just 1-3 newly formed buds on the green shoots.
Reducing the amount of watering also seems to encourage fruit buds.
Neither are desirable for a young tree, which should spend it's first few years forming up a good structure for the future, but it might improve fruiting if yours is reluctant to flower once it's established.
As said above, plums (and to some extent, pears) flower very early, so are vulnerable to late frosts killing the blossom, which is a common cause of no fruit.
In mid-summer, I believe that the sun at mid-day is so strong that plants can't make full use of the sunlight anyway, so partial shade in the middle of the day may not have any negative effect.

FB

[grannysmith]

Thanks, adrian901 and FB---this is a bit reassuring. As I said, I've put it in a place where it should, hopefully, get morning and afternoon/evening sun and some afternoon sun too, depending on the season, but I just can't guarantee full sun all day.

I've planted it in a place very near where my (potted) olive tree is doing very well and thriving, so hopefully if an olive is getting enough sun there to crop (only little small olives, but good strong leaf growth and a nice crop) the plum might be ok there.

For the first two years I'm not supposed to gather the crop anyway, I think, because the books all say "Don't let it fruit for the first two years and in the third year thin the crop at the outset" so do I still have to cover it at the end of March in the first two years? Or is that only for subsequent fruiting years?

[FB.]

You only need to consider frost protection if fruit is required. Plums are fully hardy, except their blossom. The same is true of other fruit trees.
Plums are the first to flower, followed by pears, then apples.
As the season progresses, frosts are less likely to occur and tend to be less severe.
Blossom can often survive a slight frost. Unopened flower buds have much greater tolerance to frost than the open blossoms.
The colder the frost and the more hours that it remains frosty, the greater the number of blossoms killed.

FB

[grannysmith]

HI FB

Well, hopefully it won't be too frosty next spring, but I'll bear in mind during the fruiting season to protect the tree against frost after March.

Just out of curiosity, do I have to do anything to it from damp? I mean, people don't have to spray trees with fungicides or anything, do they? Plums don't get blackspot-type diseases do they?

I hate to sound utterly inexperienced but the truth is, with fruit trees, I am utterly inexperienced.

Thanks for your patience!

[FB.]

I have a number of fruit trees, bushes and cordons, but the vast majority are apples because of their greater reliability.
I use a no-spray policy wherever possible. Some of the sprays used commercially are pretty nasty and residues can remain in the fruit, as well as unintended adverse consequences on the beneficial wildlife in your garden.

I have a Victoria plum, but it suffers from the extremely dry conditions prevalent in my area (Cambridge is the lowest-rainfall town in England).
My plums tend to be smaller than average - probably lack of rain.
From my weather data, I'd say that your area is also drier than average, so make sure that your plum is kept well-watered for the next couple of growing seasons, until it has grown a good set of roots. Fruit tree roots won't grow unless the soil is damp (but not waterlogged!).

With mine, I've had a lot of attacks from plum sawfly. When the plums are about half-inch long, you see a tiny black hole in the plum, where the larva has burrowed into the plum. I inspect the plums and snip off (and burn) any that have such holes, to reduce infection pressure the next year. If left, the damaged fruits will drop after a few weeks and the larva will crawl into the ground, to pupate and prepare for next years infection.
Once I remove the holed plums, 90% of the remainder are free from disease when picked; clean and healthy, when they mature in August. Picking a couple of days early, when just slightly unripe, prevents losses to wasps. I ripen the last couple of days in the kitchen window.

My Victoria has a number of symptoms of bacterial canker (a disease of the bark), but not all symptoms; perhaps it's canker, but not as we know it!
Victoria is known to be rather vulnerable to bacterial canker and also silver leaf fungus. Damaged bark allows the infection to get in, after which it spreads and eventually kills the tree unless the infected parts are cut off promptly.
If you get a large amount of die-back of branches, or sap-weeping wounds, investgate carefully to rule out such diseases.

Aphids have been a big pest in some years, but hoverfly larvae, lacewing larvae or ladybird larvae eventualy eat the aphids, although sooty moulds may then grow on the leaf surfaces, due to the honeydew from the aphids. The sooty moulds are not a threat to the tree.
Destroying ant nests will prevent the ants from farming and transporting the aphids, and prevents ants protecting the aphids from predators. I've watched ants mob-attack aphid predators! I've seen hoverfly larvae dragged off and then tossed clear of the plants, onto the ground, by gangs of ants.

FB

[daylily]

Hi, GS!

I'd be most and only concerned about planting your plum in a place where it doesn't easily dry out, as it's on pixy.

[grannysmith]

HI FB and daylily!

Thanks VERY much for the advice, although I had to smile a bit at the part about risking dry weather. I don't know about Cambridgeshire but down here in Bucks we're having it anything but dry at the moment.

Silver leaf I had heard about, but the plum sawfly warning was very useful. I'll keep an eye out for them. I'd heard of one person having bacterial canker, so I'll look out for that one too. Luckily, it seems ok so far and I got it at a reputable garden centre so, with any luck, we'll at least make it through the first few years. Nice to know there are a few folks out there to ask if instead of nice plums it all goes, well, pear-shaped! (Sorry, forgive terrible jokes . . . )

I'll keep off the sprays too since, with kids and a dog, I don't fancy chemicals much anyway in the garden, especially on anything we might want to eat.

Thanks again for all the great tips! I'll be in touch and let you know how it goes . . . fingers crossed!

[Two_Sheds]

Mother's got a Victoria plum in her garden (she inherited it with the house years ago). It's facing roughly East, gets sun (if there is any) from dawn until lunchtime, gets no food, watering or attention, and usually* provides more plums than the whole street can eat.

*huge crop '06 and '07. only 3 plums this year !!

[bluemoon]

I have 2 VPs one at home in the sheltered garden and one on the freezing, wind-blasted lottie. The thing is, the lottie one seems to do better. It flowers about a month later than the one at home and thus the flowers tend to miss the late frosts also the ripening fruits don't suffer the attentions of wasps, probably because there's a more natural eco-system at work on the allotments. Sometimes you can mollycoddle these things too much.
If a part shaded place is all you have then plant it there, even a few fruits is better than nothing, VPs are my favourite fruit in the whole world, ever.

[grannysmith]

Thanks Two Sheds and bluemoon. I feel a lot better now. Since I planted it, it's impossible to tell how much sun it will really get because it's been raining and cloudy just about every day. I don't think lack of rain will be its main problem anyway.

Nice to know that VPs seem fairly hardy, although maybe not as much as apple trees. I was also interested to note that at least a few VPs aren't doing as well this year as usual. I mean, I'm feeling a bit discouraged about my garden overall this year doing worse than usual because of the damp, so hopefully things will look up a bit for next spring.

BTW, what colour blossoms does a VP have? I can't wait all the way until spring to find out.

[FB.]

Your blossom will be white, once it's open. I guess you were probably hoping for pink.
Plum trees can look very attractive, when they're in full flower.
Most fruit trees (apple/pear/plum/cherry) have white or very pale pink blossom. Often, as the fruit tree flower buds open, you see the undersides of the petals as they unfold, which are quite often pink or even red. Once the flowers are open, you see the top sides of the petals, which are more or less white.

[grannysmith]

HI FB

Ok . . . white works for me! Pink would have been nice too, but you can't have everything. All the same, does it have a scent? Even a faint one?

And will my dog weeing on it hurt the tree/fruit or, dare I ask, flavour?

[bluemoon]

It has a gorgeous scent, sadly you have to virtually bury your nose in the blossom to smell it. Sniffing Blossom is one of my favourite springtime pursuits, if it's what lights your candle too GS, buy a blueberry.

PS, the wee will add nitrogen, I once saved a tree by surreptitiously emptying 'The Bucket' around its roots at the allotment once a week, and that was the VP come to think about it........I just don't tell anyone. It won't affect the flavour, just keep quiet about it and no one will ever guess.