My old apple tree

[TrixC]

I have an enormous old apple tree in my garden, I think it's most likely a Bramley although it could be another Victorian cooking variety. A tree surgeon I hired to prune it said it was possibly planted when the house was built, back in the 1890s. I have a love-hate relationship with this tree. On one hand it is very old and characterful, and exceptionally beautiful when it's in blossom. On the other hand it dominates the garden, isn't in great health (mostly hollow and is badly affected by powdery mildew and codling moth), and it overproduces and drops immature fruit constantly from June onwards, which is quite annoying and messy. I keep a builders trug next to the tree to pick up the fallen apples and I've already filled it 3 times this season. Because the tree is so large we are also not able to prune it ourselves, I have to pay a professional every few years.

If this was your tree, would you keep it?

I am always looking for things to do with the immature apples and I've decided using it to make pectin jelly, which can then be used as a base for other jams and jellies, might be the answer. This has the great advantage that I don't need to peel or core the apples. Is there any reason why unripe apples can't be used for this purpose? They should have plenty of pectin, right? And since I'm going to add sugar to make the jelly set it won't matter than the apples are sour?

[mrbadexample]

If this was your tree, would you keep it?

Given the health issues, probably not.

I am always looking for things to do with the immature apples and I've decided using it to make pectin jelly, which can then be used as a base for other jams and jellies, might be the answer. This has the great advantage that I don't need to peel or core the apples. Is there any reason why unripe apples can't be used for this purpose? They should have plenty of pectin, right? And since I'm going to add sugar to make the jelly set it won't matter than the apples are sour?

I tried using apple thinnings in place of crab apples to make a jelly and it didn't set. They weren't cookers though, which might make a difference. I ended up with a disappointing flavourless syrup.

[peanut]

I would keep it, it could even be a rare apple variety. I couldn't bear to get rid of something so old. Codling moth numbers can be reduced with a pheromone trap hung in the tree. I use one to protect mine. It's amazing how many of the pesky blighters it catches
Have you considered seeking out a specialist in fruit trees with regards to pruning it and slowly trying to bring it back to better health? Just an idea.

[ameno]

I generally have no problems getting apple jelly to set, even when mixed with fruit with no pectin at all.
For instance, last year I made a jelly using 50% plum brewing waste (that is, the left over pulp after using the plums to make wine), and this has no pectin whatsoever as you add pectic enzyme to the must to destroy all the pectin, with the other 50% being windfall apples I collected from my allotment in January (not sure on the variety, as they're from a communal orchard. They look kind of like golden delicious).
I cooked them all up together, and the resulting jelly set if anything too firmly. It was hard enough that it was difficult to spread on cold bread.

Personally, I probably wouldn't keep the tree, though. Considering the size and effort, you could grow multiple smaller trees in a similar space (although you shouldn't replace one apple tree with another, so if you'd either have to grow new apple trees in another part of the garden or put plum trees in where the apple was).

[TrixC]

I tried using apple thinnings in place of crab apples to make a jelly and it didn't set. They weren't cookers though, which might make a difference. I ended up with a disappointing flavourless syrup.

Yeah I believe eating apples have lower pectin than cooking apples or crab apples, jellies only work with high pectin fruit. I'm not too bothered if the liquid doesn't have a strong flavour as I would be be adding other flavours to it. I'd like to try making jellies with various herbs and spices, or I've read you can add plain apple jelly to help the set of jams made with low pectin fruit.

[nickdub]

I believe the unripe fruit will contain more pectin and as you say easy to process because of not needing to peel it.

I'm not sure about keeping the tree or not - one thing is for sure it's not something to make a hasty decision about, as once its gone there's no chance of bringing it back. One consideration for me would be what you could grow in its place, in my case that would be a wider range of apples and other fruit. Another thing would be the overall look of the garden without the tree - perhaps if you want further comment, posting a photo would be a good idea ?

[TrixC]

I would keep it, it could even be a rare apple variety. I couldn't bear to get rid of something so old. Codling moth numbers can be reduced with a pheromone trap hung in the tree. I use one to protect mine. It's amazing how many of the pesky blighters it catches
Have you considered seeking out a specialist in fruit trees with regards to pruning it and slowly trying to bring it back to better health? Just an idea.

Yeah I feel like it's been there so long I don't think I can be the one to kill it. Also all the neighbours are always telling me how much they like the tree!

I always use a pheromone trap and it catches lots of moths, but still a lot of the fruit is affected.

I would definitely consider consulting a fruit tree expert, although I'm not sure how to find one? The guy I've been using is a competent enough tree surgeon but I'm not sure he knows that much about apples, he told me the tree was sick and unlikely to survive much longer. I think it's pretty well known that apple trees can be old and hollow and still survive for decades.

[TrixC]

I generally have no problems getting apple jelly to set, even when mixed with fruit with no pectin at all.
For instance, last year I made a jelly using 50% plum brewing waste (that is, the left over pulp after using the plums to make wine), and this has no pectin whatsoever as you add pectic enzyme to the must to destroy all the pectin, with the other 50% being windfall apples I collected from my allotment in January (not sure on the variety, as they're from a communal orchard. They look kind of like golden delicious).
I cooked them all up together, and the resulting jelly set if anything too firmly. It was hard enough that it was difficult to spread on cold bread.

.

Your plum apple jelly sounds amazing!

[peanut]

I would definitely consider consulting a fruit tree expert, although I'm not sure how to find one? The guy I've been using is a competent enough tree surgeon but I'm not sure he knows that much about apples, he told me the tree was sick and unlikely to survive much longer. I think it's pretty well known that apple trees can be old and hollow and still survive for decades.

You could try contacting these people https://www.bifga.org.uk/ seems like a good place to start

[nickdub]

My general feeling about old fruit trees is that they can be made more productive and healthy with bit of knowledgeable care.

First off I would only get a tree surgeon type person in once. The aim would be to open up the centre of the tree to light and air by talking out one or two large branches right back to the main trunk in the winter. After that a good layer of farmyard manure applied as a much in the Spring followed by either rough mowing or strimming of any weeds and grass beneath the tree branches.

Any subsequent pruning if needed, and assuming the tree is a Bramley, should be done with a long handled lopper in the Summer i.e. around now. (you can get ones which will reach 30' in the air, which should be enough for most apple trees). Thinning of immature fruit is also important which should also be done at this time of year - this thinning is a pain of a job, but it's the only way to get decent sized apples if a lot of fruit has set on a tree, as it has on some of mine this year.

[B Porcupine]

I have a big old Bramley too, and I really do not like Bramley apples - can't eat them out of hand and useless mushy things when cooked. But it came with my old farmhouse (which it is bigger than - the apples fall on the roof in wild weasther) and well, it is a feature. I do try to give as many away as possible. I also use them in chutneys & relishes where the mushiness is not noticable. I have even juiced some with the sweet apples (but not too many!).

A tree surgeon looked at a few years ago and reduced the crown a bit (it was waggling the elec pole wires) but said yeah, it seems old and slanted and a bit hollow in parts but it was fine. So I have kept it on for 25 years (and it was no spring chicken when I moved in) and I'll have my tree guy have a look again the next time he is here, just to give the old boy a check over.


And it is so lovely when he flowers...

[TrixC]

My general feeling about old fruit trees is that they can be made more productive and healthy with bit of knowledgeable care.

First off I would only get a tree surgeon type person in once. The aim would be to open up the centre of the tree to light and air by talking out one or two large branches right back to the main trunk in the winter. After that a good layer of farmyard manure applied as a much in the Spring followed by either rough mowing or strimming of any weeds and grass beneath the tree branches.

Any subsequent pruning if needed, and assuming the tree is a Bramley, should be done with a long handled lopper in the Summer i.e. around now. (you can get ones which will reach 30' in the air, which should be enough for most apple trees). Thinning of immature fruit is also important which should also be done at this time of year - this thinning is a pain of a job, but it's the only way to get decent sized apples if a lot of fruit has set on a tree, as it has on some of mine this year.

Your post has made me feel a bit guilty because I am certainly neglecting the tree. I don't have the time or the skill to prune such a big tree so I pay someone to do it. I don't systematically thin the fruit because so many of the branches are out of reach, I suppose that's one of the reasons we get so many dropping on us. The fruit are still pretty big and sometimes enormous. Since the tree is in my garden and growing in the middle of the lawn it doesn't get manured either. Sorry tree :-(

[TrixC]

I have a big old Bramley too, and I really do not like Bramley apples - can't eat them out of hand and useless mushy things when cooked. But it came with my old farmhouse (which it is bigger than - the apples fall on the roof in wild weasther) and well, it is a feature. I do try to give as many away as possible. I also use them in chutneys & relishes where the mushiness is not noticable. I have even juiced some with the sweet apples (but not too many!).

A tree surgeon looked at a few years ago and reduced the crown a bit (it was waggling the elec pole wires) but said yeah, it seems old and slanted and a bit hollow in parts but it was fine. So I have kept it on for 25 years (and it was no spring chicken when I moved in) and I'll have my tree guy have a look again the next time he is here, just to give the old boy a check over.


And it is so lovely when he flowers...

Your tree sounds quite similar in character to mine. I am also a bit meh on Bramley apples, they need so much sugar to taste edible and the range of cooking uses is quite limited given their propensity to turn to mush. It's not an apple I'd choose to plant if it wasn't already here.

[nickdub]

Hj TrixC - I wouldn't feel too guilty - you've kept it going which is the main thing :-) Also if its giving some large fruit it must be in a reasonable state of health. As long as it's in no danger of falling over I'd forget about the tree surgeon stuff, big trees really don't need a ton of pruning, so I'd keep my money in my pocket. If you do feel it needs a trim and want to provide a little local employment, maybe there's someone who could wield a long handled lopper for you and just take out the odd small branch - better too little pruning than too much. (this is best done in the summer btw so as not to encourage more growth)

Happy gardening :-)

Nick

[TrixC]

Hj TrixC - I wouldn't feel too guilty - you've kept it going which is the main thing :-) Also if its giving some large fruit it must be in a reasonable state of health. As long as it's in no danger of falling over I'd forget about the tree surgeon stuff, big trees really don't need a ton of pruning, so I'd keep my money in my pocket. If you do feel it needs a trim and want to provide a little local employment, maybe there's someone who could wield a long handled lopper for you and just take out the odd small branch - better too little pruning than too much. (this is best done in the summer btw so as not to encourage more growth)

Happy gardening :-)

Nick

Presumably you mean early summer? if I were to prune it now I would be pruning off near mature fruit.